Permjeet Kainth

## [00:00:30] Introduction

[00:00:30] **Ian Wilson:** Ey Up, and welcome to another episode of the Coalface Stories podcast and the 60 for 60 series. Today’s special guest has spent more than four decades building relationships, creating opportunities, and connecting the right people at the right time. It gi- gives me great pleasure to welcome Permjeet Kainth to the podcast.

[00:00:49] **Permjeet Kainth:** Thank you very much for that, Ian. Just let you know, I’ve done 40 years, yeah, 40 years of networking with trusted connections across the board. Didn’t always start off with the business that I’m about to be talking about as well, had so many interesting stories along the way.

## [00:01:02] Who is Permjeet today?

[00:01:02] **Ian Wilson:** That’s good. So who is Permjeet today, and what are you spending most of your time focused on?

[00:01:08] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think what, I think today what I do, I focus on, I’m better known as the founder of Rough Diamond. I’m also what the better known as the Connections Guru. What I do is spend my time talking to people who are looking for quality clients. As you know, Ian, you go to numerous networking events. You sit down in front with somebody, you think they’re your ideal client, you have a meeting with them, and at the end of the conversation, they end up not being your ideal client.

[00:01:33] **Permjeet Kainth:** And also, and then insult added to injury, they try to sell you something you don’t actually need. That’s what… And I think that’s what it’s all about. I think it’s personal connections with people. Networking is not about pitching your business or trying to sell something. It’s about getting to know the person you’re standing in front of.

[00:01:53] **Permjeet Kainth:** So that’s what I spend most of my time on at the moment doing.

## [00:01:56] What do you most enjoy about networking?

[00:01:56] **Ian Wilson:** So what do you most enjoy about that?

[00:02:00] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think it’s, I would say, we’re part of the same network. We met on, the Rebellious Network, and I think what it is,

[00:02:04] **Permjeet Kainth:** it’s a conversation you have with people. It’s speaking to people and getting to know them, not just on a business level, on a personal level.

[00:02:10] **Permjeet Kainth:** We’ve known each other now m- maybe, gotta be over a year, aren’t it?

[00:02:10] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. At least.

[00:02:10] **Permjeet Kainth:** We’ve had

[00:02:11] **Permjeet Kainth:** various conversations, may have collaborations

[00:02:16] **Permjeet Kainth:** come out. when you come approached me with this, I thought,

[00:02:21] **Permjeet Kainth:** “Yeah, it’s a good idea.” Because what it’s doing is I love this connection with people. I enjoy people’s company. People will ask me a story from that field was, I didn’t attend a network event because my daughter got married, my son and daughter-in-law moved out, and my little pride and joy was born, my grandson.

[00:02:38] **Permjeet Kainth:** Also at the same time, what happened is, is that people were ringing me up, three, four people rang me up and said to me, “Where have you been? What have you been up to? We’ve not seen you at networking events for a long time.” That shows the, the, the value of the personal connections I have with people just on the business level.

[00:02:54] **Permjeet Kainth:** And I think what it is, I just enjoy getting to know people and what it’s all about. Business is not always about business. You’ve got to take the business element out of it at some point. You’ve gotta go… When I go to a networking event, it’s like we’re going to bowling or we’re going to, or, or we’re going to meet, I don’t know, have a word in a meal.

[00:03:09] **Permjeet Kainth:** it’s all about that sitting down and actually getting to know each other as, as, as individuals, not as the business they actually do. That’s what I love doing.

[00:03:19] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah, exactly. You’ve got to build that know, like, and trust first before you even, before even business comes into the equation.

[00:03:27] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s very, very true.

[00:03:28] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah. That’s one of the most important things, yeah. And what… With me, what you see is what you get. I’m an open book. Ask me any questions you wanna ask me, I’ll always answer them. There’s nothing too personal to my heart. But I… Also, what I love about when I actually meet people as well, they also tell me sort of about their personal life, that they’ve either been through a tragedy or they’ve had a celebration.

[00:03:49] **Permjeet Kainth:** But what I will do will also resonate with them and get to know who they’re all about in terms of it, ’cause that’s the, that’s the most important thing.

## [00:03:57] Young Permjeet

[00:03:57] **Ian Wilson:** That’s great, Permjeet So tell us about young Permjeet and what sort of child were you?

[00:04:03] **Permjeet Kainth:** What sort of child was I? Yeah. That’s a bit of a story, isn’t it? You know what? I’m not the person I am today because my childhood, I was at a little… I was a quiet, a quiet little boy at school. I never really speak to anybody. I, I had about three or four good actual friends itself.

[00:04:21] **Permjeet Kainth:** But I’m born in N- born and bred in Nottingham. I went to school in my local area, which is the Radford area, then went to secondary school. I think what it is, I was quiet, I was reserved. I wasn’t outspoken. There was… I was… When people see me from school, they were a bit shocked in the way I actually am now than actually what I was then.

[00:04:39] **Permjeet Kainth:** Because I never used to say boo to a goose. I never talked to anybody. It only changed when I was about, what, 15 years old when I fancied a girl, on the bus. And she, And what I didn’t know was is at the time, I think she fancied me. So I met her not far from where I live. So I was walking down the road and had a tap on the shoulder, and she tapped me on the shoulder.

[00:04:46] **Permjeet Kainth:** I turned around, I saw this girl, and I didn’t know what I said, but I said, “I fancied you and I wanted to ask you out, but I thought you’d say no.” She said the exact same thing to me.

[00:04:52] **Permjeet Kainth:** Ever since that day, I went

[00:04:53] **Permjeet Kainth:** out for about, what, six months or so. And then after that, I then, then d- I developed the skills of coming out and actually talking to people. And I think then once I started doing that, I used to go out. Sometimes I used to go out with my mates. but they usually just wanna play pranks and stuff like that, and I wasn’t really that sort of a person.

[00:05:11] **Permjeet Kainth:** So what I’d do is I’d sometimes walk around out myself, feeling a bit shy. Go to the park, maybe play football with people on the park, talk to them, get to know what they’re all about in terms of it. and, and that’s where the personality grew. So I was shy and reserved, and I always want… There’s always one thing.

[00:05:26] **Permjeet Kainth:** I know I would never have, never got it. I always wanted to be the Indian 007, which is, which is very, very funny. ‘Cause I used to walk around with one of these, water guns inside, a little pack inside my jacket inside, you know what I want. And I think what it is, is I think I learned a lot from sc- being…

[00:05:37] **Permjeet Kainth:** When I was younger in school. I learned a lot from other people. I think I took a lot in, but never really speak that much. I was a quiet lad. Not like I’m like now. I’m a right chatterbox now at times

## [00:05:49] What did you think you’d be doing?

[00:05:49] **Ian Wilson:** So what did you think you’d be doing when you grew up?

[00:05:53] **Permjeet Kainth:** If honestly, I think I never did a regular job. I don’t think I’d got anything special, but I wasn’t my… I wasn’t very good at school. I wasn’t very educational. I, I, I couldn’t really sometimes think for myself in terms of what I wanted to do. I’ve… All I was interested in was, was earning a bit of money.

[00:06:11] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s what I was interested in. I wasn’t thinking about being a, a, anything grand or anything like that, to be a multimillionaire. I was just a regular Joe who wanted to go to school, do his study and that lot, and get a job at the end of it. Go out, enjoy nights out with my mates or even by myself. That’s what I would usually think about.

[00:06:27] **Permjeet Kainth:** Never thought about what I wanted to do, apart from being the next Indian; James Bond. Nothing else about it

## [00:06:33] Where did your ability to connect come from?

[00:06:33] **Ian Wilson:** So looking back, where do you think your ability to connect with people first came from?

[00:06:38] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think it came at the age of, I would say about 18, 19, when I went to, when I went… What I decided to do one day, my mates all wanted to go out and have a, and just have a drink and get pissed, and that was it, then chat girls up.

[00:06:52] **Permjeet Kainth:** Me, I wanted a bit more than that. I, I wanted to go out, enjoy it, but make, make it meaningful. And I think at the age of 18, started to go out. I started to go out by myself. So what I would do is go out, and I would actually talk to people at the bar, in a pub, wherever they were, and strike up a conversation.

[00:07:10] **Permjeet Kainth:** And then as I started to realize, actually, I can actually connect with people on a personal level and talk about what they… But what people would do is, I never realized this until then, was they would talk to me and tell me things about their life without me asking a question. ‘Cause I was one of the people they could actually meet for the first time and trust.

[00:07:32] **Permjeet Kainth:** Some of them, some of them I made some good friends from it and lasted years and years until they all moved away out the country. But I think then, I think pe- I think that’s where it really established where, what I was good at was connecting people, understanding, but also thinking about if they needed any help with something, I would try to find a connection for them that would help them.

[00:07:50] **Permjeet Kainth:** Even when I were younger, the age of 18

## [00:07:53] Relationships vs transactions

[00:07:53] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. Was there a point where you realized that relationships are more valuable than transactions?

[00:08:00] **Permjeet Kainth:** I, I think it was a point of that. I think that was it, 18 years old. It wasn’t about, it wasn’t about me in connection with it, with the business and the transaction itself.

[00:08:09] **Permjeet Kainth:** To, to me, it was more the personal fact. I think what I’ve learned throughout the 40 years doing networking is that if I, I don’t build a connection for the business side of it, I build it more for the personal side of it, I get

[00:08:18] **Permjeet Kainth:** the result. Build a personal connection with them, maybe the business will come later. It didn’t matter to me about the money, it was more about the connecting side of it, and that’s why I did the connecting for at least a, a very long time without even charging, not, without even charging for any of those services.

[00:08:35] **Permjeet Kainth:** Because I was more interested in helping the person in front of me than actually making the money out of it. It’s, oh, this, the, the connection’s got to only come together in the last couple of years or so. And I think it’s really come together. And someone said to me a couple of years ago, “This is what you need to be doing.”

[00:08:51] **Permjeet Kainth:** are, are you a- you know, the questions were the, was, “Are you actually earning any money from this, in what you’re doing?” And I said, “No, I’m not.” He said, “Well, why don’t you turn it into a business?” And I never really thought about that. At that point, it began to dawn on me that there was people out there who needed my services, they needed my connections.

[00:09:09] **Permjeet Kainth:** Because they were having endless meetings and endless awkward cups of coffee and wasn’t able to actually get the actual, the, the clients they were looking for. So what I would do is have that initial call with them. I would vet them. I’d tell them, “I can…” The two options of mine is, like, one is a trusted connection

[00:09:28] **Permjeet Kainth:** The other side is actually getting customers for them who actually need the services, and that’s what made it easier for me because it was building that personal connection. But, when I’m going to, when I have a, a meeting with somebody, I actually don’t talk about the business straight away. I actually talk about them and who they are and what they’re actually doing, and then that’s where people fail.

[00:09:46] **Permjeet Kainth:** See, when COVID came, it was harder because the cups of coffee and that lot, all the little pleasantries went out the window then everybody went straight into business and that was it. Me, I don’t do that. I always go into the personal side of it. Always have, always will. I think that personal connection to me is more than the actual transiti- transactional side of it because at the end of the day, it, if you haven’t built a trust with somebody, they don’t get to know, like, and trust you.

[00:10:11] **Permjeet Kainth:** How are they gonna recommend you? No. Are you go, are you gonna get the, are you gonna get the, justification in what you actually do and are, and are they credible? That’s why I love doing what I do, because I just love building connections. I love getting to know people. Even though me and you may not do business together, w- somebody on my side or on your side may need your services, or, or may need my services.

[00:10:34] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s where then you start thinking is… My story would be, I think, when I had the hairdressing salon, my hairdresser left, so we put everything down in the marketing base to actually build more customer base. What she, what I didn’t know at the time, she took the book and left me with six clients. That’s where I built it to 109 in the nine months, using the, the customer service side of it.

[00:10:56] **Permjeet Kainth:** And I think that’s the thing. When one woman came into the salon, she came… We put a Groupon deal on. She came into the salon. We were doing an offer. She wanted to check the prices and all that, but she ended up going through a Groupon and buying it and went through there. But other clients are coming to the shop and actually said to me, ” What they’ve done is my daughter worked out price for them, and then what they do, they think about it and come back.”

[00:11:18] **Permjeet Kainth:** But a question I asked them, “What was the reason why you came back to it on the second time?” The reason being is because they remembered me, they remembered the name of the business, and that’s why they came back into the shop to take the price we gave them about two months later, because we built that connection with them and understood what they were actually looking for.

[00:11:40] **Permjeet Kainth:** But it was the personal connection and getting to know them, because what I usually do with date of births. I used to mem- give them, emails regarding any, discounts that we had going, any services they could rely on what they had done, on what they had in the shop.

[00:11:53] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think that’s where you’re beginning to realize business is not always about the transactional side. It’s more to do with that personal connection.

## [00:12:02] What do people get wrong with networking?

[00:12:02] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So what, what do most people get wrong and struggle with, connecting and building relationships?

[00:12:09] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think that’s, I think, I think that’s a struggle. I think what it is, people don’t know how to network their business.

[00:12:14] **Permjeet Kainth:** They don’t know how to pitch it. That’s what they struggle with in the business itself. How do they actually pitch their business to somebody to make them lean in and say, “We need your services”? Mine’s simple. Are you looking for quality clients? Who’s gonna say no? Any old business that need customers.

[00:12:34] **Permjeet Kainth:** But I think that’s where they struggle with it. How do they actually network their business either online or offline?

## [00:12:40] Can relationship building be taught?

[00:12:40] **Ian Wilson:** Exactly. So do you think relationship building can be taught?

[00:12:44] **Permjeet Kainth:** It can be. It’s a bit, a bit of a hard question to actually answer because you don’t, you don’t know what’s inside that person or what they are.

[00:12:52] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think you can, it can be taught if, if they’re willing to learn. There’s that saying, “You can’t teach, an old dog new tricks.” You can if that old dog wants to learn. You can put a simple formula together for them to tell them exactly what they’re doing, and what they’re doing wrong, and if they accept it, yes, you can, you can teach it, but it depends on who you’re actually talking to at the time.

[00:13:15] **Permjeet Kainth:** ‘Cause as you know, there’s people out there who are adamant, they’re stuck in their ways in what they’re actually doing, and they won’t change for the love or money. But there’s people there who are adaptable and will change their systems to get the results they’re looking for. So you have to look at a person, you have to look what they’re looking at and what they want, or what their services or what their products are before you can turn around and say to them, “Well, if you just tweak this or you tweak that, you’ve got a chance that this could come together for you quite well.”

[00:13:42] **Permjeet Kainth:** And you know there’s people out there who’ve been doing it for years and years and years, haven’t had many clients coming through because of the way they are as a person. Because what they’re… It’s a p- previous question before that. They’re looking more the transactional side than they’re looking at the personal connection.

[00:13:59] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s what they’re looking for the most. But if, if they, if they can adapt their, the way they are as a person, and how they actually c- create a conversation with somebody… See, I’ve got one habit that I know for a fact, I could talk to anybody anywhere, any place, regardless of where I am. At a bus stop, in a networking event, in a restaurant, in a pub, anywhere, ’cause that’s just the way I am.

[00:14:22] **Permjeet Kainth:** I’ve always been like that. That… Now that is in itself is a unique skill. Not many people can do that. People go to networking events, listen to people, and when you ask them what they do, the first thing I’ve noticed that they can’t actually say what their business is in, in a one-line sentence or a pitch.

[00:14:40] **Permjeet Kainth:** But yet, I can understand what they’re saying. I’ve got the adaptability where I can listen to what they’re saying, but also listen to what they’re not saying to me, and have to give an answer back to them. And they’ll think to me, and they’ll think, “Hang on a minute. I didn’t actually say that, but that’s exactly what I do do,” in terms of it.

[00:14:56] **Permjeet Kainth:** And that’s the hardest thing. Teaching someone, depending on the person and their personality-

## [00:15:03] Overlooking opportunities in your network?

[00:15:03] **Ian Wilson:** That’s great. So do you think, business owners often spend huge amounts of time and money chasing leads, while overlooking opportunities already sitting in the network?

[00:15:16] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah, definitely. Without a doubt. I would say 100%.

[00:15:19] **Permjeet Kainth:** ‘ Cause you don’t know who’s around the corner. You may have somebody who may need your services or products, but have not mentioned it to you. But if you don’t ask the questions then, how do you know if they, how do you know if they don’t need your services or products or businesses? I would say definitely, yeah

## [00:15:35] Are people overcomplicating business growth?

[00:15:35] **Ian Wilson:** So are people overcomplicating business growth?

[00:15:39] **Permjeet Kainth:** I would say yes. In, in a nutshell, yeah. I would say it depends on the business you’re actually doing, I would say. With a hairdressing salon, it’s, it’s not complicated because all you need is customers coming through the door. It’s where you’re networking with other people, tell about your salon. With a connection Guru, you know people need quality leads and quality customers to come to them.

[00:15:56] **Permjeet Kainth:** it’s easy… For me, it’s easy to know what people are looking for and how to actually, how to actually properly introduce them to people that will need their businesses. But it’s the way they come across, and it’s me being straight and blunt and straightforward with them and saying to them, “Well, I’m gonna have difficulty.”

[00:16:12] **Permjeet Kainth:** An example would be, if you’re a digital marketer, what is your unique selling point against all the other digital marketers in the area, that you’re in your field? Because y- because you know it’s gonna be saturation in what they’re doing. Web design is the same. It’s gonna be saturation in what they do.

[00:16:32] **Permjeet Kainth:** Certain products and services. So you’ve got to stick out. So I would say to them, I’ll be blunt and say to them, “Well, I can’t promote your business because if I, if I say something about your business, they’re gonna come and ask me what exactly is unique about you.” And then I would say, “No, well, you need to speak to them about that in terms of it.”

[00:16:49] **Permjeet Kainth:** And that’s where I think the key element is, the key element to this is you’ve got to know how to promote someone’s business if it’s easy to do. If you can’t, and I will tell them so, and then I’ll refer them onto someone, one of my trusted connections that can actually help that or clarify that piece as well for them to make it more easier for them.

## [00:17:09] Commoditized industries

[00:17:09] **Ian Wilson:** So do you think, certain industries have been sort of commoditized and, basically got the supermarket problem where they’re all selling the same thing w- and trying to be different?

[00:17:22] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah. I, I, I think the one thing I’ve, I will say to them is that don’t think about the business that you’re actually selling.

[00:17:29] **Permjeet Kainth:** I would think about the personality that you are and the personality you want to work with. So if you do a custom persona, do it on yourself ’cause you are your ideal customer. You know exactly what you want from the business and what you want to do with it. If you go into that perception, you’ve got more chance of getting quality clients than any Tom, Dick, or Harry coming to you and asking for services.

[00:17:54] **Permjeet Kainth:** But I think the biggest pain point is actually can they afford your services? If you give them a service, if you overvalue and undercharge, you’re gonna get more clients coming that way than you do if you do, if you overcharge and don’t give enough value to them. Understand what your customers are looking for, listen to what they’re looking for, and offer a service to the pain points they’ve got, and a solution that will get them results in, in the long run, not the short term.

[00:18:25] **Permjeet Kainth:** Because you can work in a short-term project but it won’t work. You’ve gotta think of the long-term lon- longevity of your, of the product you’re actually doing

## [00:18:32] What makes someone memorable?

[00:18:32] **Ian Wilson:** So what makes somebody memorable enough for you to naturally think of them when an opportunity appears?

[00:18:39] **Permjeet Kainth:** Me, person themselves. Me. People remember me, who, who I am.

[00:18:44] **Ian Wilson:** Okay.

[00:18:45] **Permjeet Kainth:** It’s not about the opportunities I’m giving, it’s about Permjeet and what he’s like.

[00:18:49] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah.

[00:18:50] **Permjeet Kainth:** I’m a unique selling point. I know a lot of networkers out there that I know we keep in contact on a regular basis, and the reason why I go to the networking event, there’s only one networking event I will go to every once a week on a Wednesday, ’cause I work day jobs, once a week, once a month on a, on a Wednesday, that I will actually swap my rest day off from work to go to her event because of her.

[00:19:10] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s why I network. I, and I meet a lot of people there. There’s a couple of other people I actually know as well

[00:19:12] **Permjeet Kainth:** that I will network on. If they offer me a chance to go networking, I’ll go networking with them in terms of…

[00:19:18] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think it’s a personality and a caliber and the trust, and to the, the trust I’ve got with, we’ve got with each other that we know we can say stuff to each other and they’ll not take offense to what we’re saying because we’re either messing around or joking.

[00:19:30] **Permjeet Kainth:** Those are the sort of people. It’s trusting. Again, it, the, the like, know, and trust factor. You’ve got to know them very, very well, not just on the personal business level, but on also on the personal level as well, and that’s what the sort of people I like working with.

## [00:19:45] Why do people find selling uncomfortable?

[00:19:45] **Ian Wilson:** That’s great. So you’ve written that many people struggle to talk about their value.

[00:19:50] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. Why do you think so many good people find selling uncomfortable?

[00:19:56] **Permjeet Kainth:** There’s a saying, there’s a saying that I heard many, many years ago, “If you could sell to the Brits, you could sell to anybody.” And I think what it is, the way it works is the reason why they don’t like selling is because they’re selling something to somebody that they may not truly believe is working.

[00:20:15] **Permjeet Kainth:** But they don’t like asking people or following up because they feel like they’re badg- they’re badgering people. With me, it’s like if I said to you, and let, let me ask you a question, Ian. Do you drink?

[00:20:28] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah.

[00:20:29] **Permjeet Kainth:** Do you drink wine?

[00:20:31] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah, occasionally.

[00:20:33] **Permjeet Kainth:** Okay. Well, why… if I said to you, “I’m looking for a wine to drink,” what would you recommend to me?

[00:20:38] **Ian Wilson:** I would rec- It all depends on what you’re do- doing with what, what you’re drinking it with, whoever, whether it’s with meat or fish or something like that. But my- … probably go to is either a, a Rioja if, if it’s red or a pinot noir if it’s red, or then, a- Nice … white is a… I’ve forgotten what the, what it is, but it’s an Italian, Italian white, something nice and crisp and fresh if you like something cold.

[00:21:06] **Permjeet Kainth:** Oh, I see. So now if I… I, I’ve had a Rioja and that’s nice, especially with a nice steak. You’ve got to have a nice steak with it, a nice m- medium-rare steak, I would say. I’ve had a Rioja, it tastes how Ian recommends it. Say for instance I’ve not tasted it, I go to the shop, I buy that, I enjoy it while I’m eating my steak.

[00:21:23] **Permjeet Kainth:** What I’m going to do is I’m gonna come back to you, Ian, and say to you, “You recommended that wine to me. It was absolutely superb.” And it was well… Or it wasn’t as good as what it would be. That’s, that’s how you would sell it to it. As you alw- or as I always say to people is you’re recommending something, you’re not actually selling anything to them.

[00:21:41] **Permjeet Kainth:** If they buy, they buy. That’s the way it works. As Bruce Lee… There was a famous saying by Bruce Lee, “The art of fighting without fighting.” Mine is the art of selling without selling. ‘Cause I’d always ask somebody, if somebody bought one of our products or services, I’d always ask them at the end of a conversation after they bought something from me, “Have I actually sold you anything?”

[00:22:03] **Permjeet Kainth:** He goes, “No, you’ve not. You recommended stuff. You told me about it.” “So why did you actually purchase it for?” “Because of you and the way you are.” That’s the way it should be. You don’t… The worst case, or the, or the story is that I… When I first got the salon, a, a Yellow Pages salesman came into the shop.

[00:22:23] **Permjeet Kainth:** He showed me advertising in his book, and there’s one question I kept on asking him. He’d never answer it. I said, “What are the chances of me getting guaranteed sales from that one advert in that, in that pages with maybe 100 other hairdressing salons in the, in the area?” He was skating around it and telling me figures and all that.

[00:22:43] **Permjeet Kainth:** I said, “No, but what does it do?” And he couldn’t get out of the shop fast enough when I said, “No, I wasn’t interested.” Because what it is, Ian, I’m inquisitive.

[00:22:54] **Permjeet Kainth:** I’ll think about questions that some people won’t ask. They may just go for it. They maybe think it’s a good deal and take it.

[00:23:00] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s the thing. You’ve got to be inquisitive. You’ve got to be asking the right questions today. To me, you’re asking these questions to me, which is my appreciation, my knowledge of what I bring to the table. And that’s where people don’t a- that’s why they feel uncomfortable about selling because they don’t really wanna ask questions.

[00:23:16] **Permjeet Kainth:** They think no is a no. I think no is a starting point because sooner or later they’re gonna need a service maybe further down the line, and I think that’s what it’s about. That’s why they feel uncomfortable. And I think, quote me if I’m wrong, I don’t know, I think it’s really, I think the British have got that mentality where they don’t want that.

[00:23:36] **Permjeet Kainth:** They like buying stuff, but they don’t like being sold to. And I tell you, th- I’ve done this. I’ve been to… I’ve been shopping. I’ve gone to a shop, I’ve got a fantastic deal there. But what I thought is, “I’ll go to the next shop, see if I get a better deal. I’ll go to the other shop, see if I get a better deal.”

[00:23:52] **Permjeet Kainth:** But what happens, ends, Ian, I end up going to the first shop and buying it from there, and that’s what I’ve noticed as well. that’s what it’s all about. That’s why people feel, they don’t feel like they wanna sell something to somebody. And I always say to business owners, why go into a business where you’re gonna have to sell something, a product or a service to somebody, if you feel uncomfortable about it?

[00:24:16] **Permjeet Kainth:** Come out of your comfort zone. I think the biggest comfort, because the zone I came out of was actually doing videos, ’cause I used to worry about what people thought. When all of a sudden he just told me one day, “Whatever, just do it. W- It don’t matter what they think. If it gets you customers, it gets you business coming towards you, and you’re making good personal connections, why not?”

[00:24:36] **Permjeet Kainth:** Hence why the m- if you would’ve asked me to do this say about four or five year back, you wouldn’t have got me on here. Now I’m comfortable doing it. And that’s what it’s all about. It’s stepping out of your comfort zone and expanding that box so you know you’re gonna get out there. It’s getting, you’re getting to know what people are all about, actually listening to what they say, actually ref- and responding in a perfect manner.

[00:25:00] **Permjeet Kainth:** And then you build friends and connections, and sooner or later the business will start to come without you even selling it. You wanna try to attract clients to you, not r- not repel them is what you’ve got to do.

## [00:25:12] Can selling and integrity coexist?

[00:25:12] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So basically you’re saying that selling and integrity, can cois- coexist?

[00:25:19] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah.

[00:25:20] **Permjeet Kainth:** Without a doubt. One of my, one of my three core values, empathy, honesty, and integrity.

[00:25:26] **Ian Wilson:** three amazing core values there, Permjeet

[00:25:29] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah. Thank you

## [00:25:30] Lessons about human nature

[00:25:30] **Ian Wilson:** So what do you think you’ve learned about human nature after spending decades helping people build relationships?

[00:25:37] **Permjeet Kainth:** Not everybody’s the same Take people on what… Don’t take people on face value. Get to learn what they’re all about. A story is I was at work, when I used to work for, local government, was there was a chap in the office, he didn’t really like me.

[00:25:53] **Permjeet Kainth:** He never come to my face and told me, and then I went up, when somebody else told me, I went up and had a conversation with him. I, took a… And he said he didn’t like the way I was, my personality. I’m the same in work as I’m outside of work, either my business or outside of business. What you see is what you get.

[00:26:09] **Permjeet Kainth:** And we became friends for a little short while before I actually ended up leaving the council. So we did go out

[00:26:15] **Permjeet Kainth:** a couple of times. He got to know what I was all about, and he understood it. That was me. But my personality to me trumps that above. I listen to anybody. If I’m, if I don’t agree with somebody, and we’re, we’re working in an office, or they don’t agree with me or they don’t like it, I will always say to them, “We may not like each other, but things have to be professional in the office environment.

[00:26:32] **Permjeet Kainth:** So if you have got a problem with me and my attitude the way I am, please come talk to me about it. Don’t go to talk to other people about it, in terms of what you do.” Because I think that’s the important thing. You, you don’t treat… Not everybody’s the same, me and, yeah, you know, you look, look at people.

[00:26:48] **Permjeet Kainth:** I’ve met some great friends along the way in terms of work. I’ve got more friends. I’ve, I have got, I, I don’t, well, I don’t think I’ve got any enemies anyway, but, but I think what it is, it’s just getting to know what people are all about and what makes them tick and what they do like in terms of it. And I think the personal part of it, I think that’s why with networking, the personal part of it is very, very important.

[00:27:08] **Permjeet Kainth:** And I think most business owners forget that part. And they have a, they have a dream of what they wanna do, but they’re too busy chasing the dream only to find out it, it comes to a dead end at the end. There’s a block, there, there’s a block on the end of the wall, and that’s it. But building the relationship has always been important with me, and I think that’s the integrity to it

## [00:27:26] What surprises you about human nature?

[00:27:26] **Ian Wilson:** What surprises you the most about human nature?

[00:27:29] **Permjeet Kainth:** It has to be a hard one for you to ask there. well, supposedly some people who you think are nice but can be very two-faced Because you can talk to people, think they’re very sincere to your face, and the next minute you’re hearing from somewhere else, they’re saying something else about you behind your back.

[00:27:48] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s what surprise some- some, sometimes I get surprised in terms of. I haven’t got many people who’ve done that, maybe a couple of people in the past, but I think that surprises. Also, the fact that when people see people on face value, they don’t understand exactly what they’re all about until you have a conversation with them.

[00:28:06] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think what sometimes surprises me, I’ve seen two people get, can get on very well together but won’t talk to each other for summat else. But that, that really surprises me, and I’ve got people together, you know, who don’t, who don’t, don’t think they like each other, and then they’re being best mates or going, or a boy and a girl maybe going out with each other because they didn’t think they were compatible with each other.

[00:28:31] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think that, that, it’s one of those things where it’s in everybody nature. What surprises you? Throwing the question back at you. I know you’re asking me questions, so what surprises you about people and human nature?

[00:28:45] **Ian Wilson:** Oh, load, loads of things, but one of the things that you, you just touched on is people that are not totally authentic in themselves and the behind-the-back chatter and things like that because if they’re not, if they’re not the real person, it, they’re going to get found out really fast.

[00:29:06] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah. I, I think, I think another thing that surprised me with people is one, when I, I only realized this when I worked in local government, was that- When they go out, they’re totally different to when they’re in the office. They’re more relaxed and more chilled out when they go out, but when they’re actually in the office, they’re more…

[00:29:23] **Permjeet Kainth:** They’re not, they don’t laugh and they joke a lot in the office as much as what they would, I would thought they would do. ‘Cause you can, you can tell, and there were some people wearing one hat for work and one hat for when they go out, when they go out, and I don’t understand that. What you see with me, I’m the same in the office as I am outside the office Look, that’s, that’s another thing sometimes, you know, things, funny things is all the good laugh and the good joke in the office are gonna go out, but sometimes it may be a bit dull for some reason.

[00:29:50] **Permjeet Kainth:** I don’t know why. But or the other way around, and I think that’s another thing as well. That’s, that is surprising.

[00:29:56] **Ian Wilson:** I’ve noticed that being in various and different environments, there is a, a lot of people that are putting a face or an act on, so they, they seem more acceptable or, or something in, in a particular environment.

[00:30:10] **Ian Wilson:** Like you say, that they, really are full on in the office, and then when- they go out the natural shy self.

[00:30:18] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah. it can sometimes become a bit of a party animal.

[00:30:21] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. Or the opposite way around, of course.

[00:30:24] **Permjeet Kainth:** Well, when I’m, oh yeah, I’m the party animal in the office and out of the office.

[00:30:27] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. Well, I should imagine you are. Permjeet is you get what you see, full stop.

[00:30:34] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yes. Yeah, that’s it. What you see is what you get.

## [00:30:38] How has networking changed?

[00:30:38] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So as you’ve been build- building relationships and networking for over four decades, how has networking changed?

[00:30:46] **Permjeet Kainth:** I don’t think networking changes as much as what it is.

[00:30:49] **Permjeet Kainth:** It’s all the people and the people you meet at the networking events have changed, and the way their ethos is and what they actually say at networking events. I think more people are beginning to think the way I’m thinking as in the long term. When, when it first started, it was more about the business of pitching to sale.

[00:31:02] **Permjeet Kainth:** it’s like LinkedIn. LinkedIn was a platform for job applications. It wasn’t meant to be from business to business in terms of I’m trying to find clients, in terms of it. It’s exactly the same as that. I think what it is, networkers are beginning to realize now that the personal connections with people is more important than the actual business they do.

[00:31:21] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s what it’s all about. In terms of personal connections, I think at first when it first started out, everybody’s going in the room and pitching their business to each other and not getting much, not getting much joy out of it. And then somebody must have started to realize, “Actually, this is not working.

[00:31:35] **Permjeet Kainth:** Is it… W- what we should do is try this.” As you know, there’s various networks in Nottingham itself. I know five of the top networks in Nottingham are member networks. And that’s why when I go to a networking event, I have some interesting conversations with people, and I think it’s more developed onto like the social side and not business as well.

[00:31:52] **Permjeet Kainth:** So you have a social event, ’cause as you know, you can go to a networking event, but the business… What the networking event aren’t where you actually do the business, the business is done outside the networking event when you go for a drink afterwards. And you go, that, that… I think that’s the difference now.

[00:32:08] **Permjeet Kainth:** Before it was like people went to networking events, and then they left the networking events, that was it. They didn’t meet up. They didn’t follow up. And the thing is is that I don’t… I, really what I normally do is I don’t give my business card to anybody I take their business card or their details on LinkedIn, and then I will contact them and make that connection with them.

[00:32:25] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s what I do myself, and I think a lot of people are beginning to do that now. So people are beginning to realize that giving you a business card, that’ll give you information, now people are gonna contact you. If you get their information, then you can ring them. I know it’s like a double-edged sword in the way it work, the way it works, but it’s better for me because you know that I’m gonna contact somebody in terms of.

[00:32:45] **Permjeet Kainth:** Like I said, like I, like I know I’ve done with you. I’ve contacted you a couple of times. You had a couple of Zoom meeting. And that’s what it is. It build… But at the same time, it’s building that personal connection with you as well. That’s an important thing

## [00:32:58] Has technology helped networking?

[00:32:58] **Ian Wilson:** It is, exactly. Uh, that’s probably why I, I, for many years had a bad relationship with, with networking, is because probably the first networking event I ever attended, there was these vultures stood at the door, “Hello, buy my shit.”

[00:33:14] **Ian Wilson:** And then as soon as you said hello and th- you weren’t interested in that, they just blank you and walked off from you. There was no connection building. And do, do you think technology’s actually helped remove that stigma from, networking with the advent of, Zoom and things like that?

[00:33:32] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think online…

[00:33:33] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think it’s on the personal connection, yeah, because you lose the presence. Whenever one-to-one, you lose the presence. And with me, you don’t. I don’t lose the presence. I still ask the questions, and I think it does because people just wanna jump straight into it. So many networking events I’ve done online now are actually amazing because it’s all about the business and the personal connections to get to know each other.

[00:33:51] **Permjeet Kainth:** As you know, with the Rebellious network, their, their service is excellent, second to none. The way they do their networking event is unusual, where they think about more collaboration than competition, and that’s what it’s all about. And that’s another thing that’s actually started to happen more and more often.

[00:34:05] **Permjeet Kainth:** ‘Cause what’s happening is that building

[00:34:06] **Permjeet Kainth:** that personal connection to somebody, doing a collaboration with somebody, even if they’re in the same field as what you are, there’s always room for, there’s always room for, customers for both of you. But as I always say, the personal aspect is always more important than the business aspect, because the transac-

[00:34:16] **Permjeet Kainth:** the transaction can come on anywhere. But you never know, once you build somebody and you’re talk… Say, if I’ve talked to you about your business and what you do, and then all of a sudden it pops into my head, I know somebody who needs your services or vice versa, then we’re gonna rec- you’ve got more chance of recommending you to each other than you have got what a complete stranger.

[00:34:33] **Permjeet Kainth:** But, the thing I like about networking now is when I go, the pers- if I see a person standing by themselves, that’s the first person I will go to. I’ll talk to them about them to… And get to know them on that level as well, because I think that’s where a, a lot of networks actually fail. They, they talk…

[00:34:51] **Permjeet Kainth:** Go to people they already know, speaking to them, chatting with them, forgetting the people in the room who are there who have not been here before and maybe standing there. But that’s what I do, talk to them people. That’s the difference between networking now and networking back in the day.

## [00:35:07] Human connection in an AI world

[00:35:07] **Ian Wilson:** Like that. So in a world increasingly driven by AI and automation, how important does human connection become?

[00:35:15] **Permjeet Kainth:** I would say 100%. 100% comes more… Because I think what it is, with AI, pe- what people do is that they tend to sit in front of their PCs a lot more, going for AI, but don’t use AI in, in the right manner. They maybe use it like a Google search engine when there’s a lot more to AI than it is meets the eye. But you can train it to sound like you, talk like you, and get content out with you.

[00:35:38] **Permjeet Kainth:** But on the other hand, the personal connection more important because it, it’s human, it’s human interaction. It’s getting to know them. It’s getting to talk about them. They could’ve said something to you quite a while ago, go back to them and say to them, “How did XYZ go?” “Oh, this happened in your family,” or, “This happened with your son or your daughter.”

[00:35:56] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s a personal connection. Even on a Zoom call, I do that thing. If they tell me something they’re going through and they can’t make a Zoom call with me for some reason, I’d always ask them the reason why. And then I’ll get to know them. I’ll talk to them about them as well because I… There was a story, I was speaking to someone on the line, on the phone, on the one-to-one.

[00:36:13] **Permjeet Kainth:** She was telling me she had a problem with a, a internet connection. She got on the phone with the ISP, internet service provider. She spoke to the actual colleague on the, the staff on the phone, but she realized the staff was a bit off. She was a bit off, listening to what she was saying and what she was talking.

[00:36:31] **Permjeet Kainth:** So what she said to her, she said to this person, “Apart what you’ve got with me, my problem with myself, and what happened with my internet connection, are you okay?” And the person said to her, “What do you mean am I okay?” Said, “You don’t sound, you don’t sound very happy where you are.” And apparently that morning, her, her, her, her partner’s left her, but she still came into work.

[00:36:52] **Permjeet Kainth:** But she was surprised because you wasn’t thinking about the actual staff. You wasn’t thinking about her problem with the internet service provider, was more concerned about the staff. That’s where people get… See, when I’m on the phone with my normal job, I think if I’m doing something, I don’t want to go silent on them.

[00:37:09] **Permjeet Kainth:** So I talk to them, ask them about the weather, how they are, what’s happening with them, have a conversation with them while I’m doing what I’m doing. That’s where people miss out on that connection though. That’s the thing, that personal connection. When A- AI now come, they think it’s a be all and end all.

[00:37:25] **Permjeet Kainth:** There’s so many people coming out, so many AI programs out there. How can you keep up with them all? But the basic thing is, what they’re forgetting is, is that you get stuck in the house, all the time. You’re never going out and meeting people, so you make… So I make it a, a habit, at least one or two networking events a month, if I can get out the house and do it.

[00:37:43] **Permjeet Kainth:** ‘Cause I’m in the house by myself most of the time now because I’ve got no family, and my wife’s working as well, so I work twilight. So that’s another thing. So that’s why I think it’s important, the personal connection. Yes, AI is important because you still gotta learn it- But the personal connection I think is more above AI, ’cause you need those personal interactions.

[00:38:00] **Permjeet Kainth:** Otherwise, will you be having a conversation and your wife was downstairs and you had it on the AI program upstairs, you speak to there.

[00:38:07] **Permjeet Kainth:** Now,

[00:38:07] **Permjeet Kainth:** that, that would be funny, but yet you’re gonna go downstairs to have a personal conversation with your wife. ‘Cause sometimes, you know, when you’re out all day, sometimes you want…

[00:38:16] **Permjeet Kainth:** You know, when, when you’ve had a bad day, you sometimes want to vent. That, that’s natural, vent. But who you gonna vent to? An AI? An AI is gonna agree with you, or a, a person who may not agree with you or may agree with you and say stuff to you. ‘Cause you’re not gonna have the same conversation with AI, are you?

[00:38:34] **Permjeet Kainth:** Unless you train it to be argumentative. Well, that’s another point. I think the personal side is, uh, a lot more important than the AI are. But AI’s going to develop more and more each day as we go along now

## [00:38:45] Will trust become more valuable?

[00:38:45] **Ian Wilson:** So do you think trust would become more valuable?

[00:38:50] **Permjeet Kainth:** It’s better. I would say it should do, ’cause I think it’s a main part of anything you’re doing, whether it’s your business, whether it’s your personal life.

[00:38:57] **Permjeet Kainth:** If you don’t trust that person, you’re not gonna be doing any business or gonna be contacting. It’s the element. It’s not about the transactional side of it, ’cause I know… I knew somebody could earn me a lot of money, but I didn’t like the way his personality was. And mate turned around and said to him, “Well, hang on a minute, you’re sure gonna make a lot of money.”

[00:39:16] **Permjeet Kainth:** I said, “No, my, my integrity is more important above anything. I don’t want my… I don’t want to lose my credibility in the marketplace by making a mistake to make a lot of mon- to make a lot of money, which cost me my, uh, my credibility.” And that’s what it’s all about. Trust, trust is one of the most important things in business.

[00:39:37] **Permjeet Kainth:** You’ve got to get to know, like, and trust that person. I have got a secret in my mind that I’ve had from my friend when he was 14 years old and never told anybody, ever.

[00:39:47] **Permjeet Kainth:** he, he later, after that, telling me that he actually committed suicide after that. But as I’m saying, trust is very, very important. So if you told me something in, in confidence, not on a Zoom phone call, ’cause everybody will hear it, unless you edit it.

[00:39:56] **Permjeet Kainth:** If you told me something and you said that in confidence to me, it would stay there. I wouldn’t tell anybody else about it, because that’s, that’s lo- you… That’s losing your t- that’s your trust to… Your trust will go out the window with me. You won’t tell me anything again. But somebody could come up to you that you know and said, “Oh, well, Perm, he told me this about you and what you were doing,” and all this.

[00:40:15] **Permjeet Kainth:** You know what I mean? That trust, that element of trust is important, whether it’s in a business or whether it’s in a personal relationship. Always trust is above everything else.

[00:40:25] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. That’s so important, the being known for consistent trust and, integrity.

[00:40:32] **Permjeet Kainth:** Very important. Integrity, empathy, and honesty, I think are some of my three values .

[00:40:38] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah. I’ve got to remember that. It’s what it’s all about. What you see is what you get, as I always say.

## [00:40:43] Relationship lessons you wish you’d known

[00:40:43] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So what has life taught you about relationships that you wish you… Let me put my teeth back in. What has life taught you about relationships that you wish you’d known earlier?

[00:40:57] **Permjeet Kainth:** Understanding what the other person’s all about before making a prejudgment. ‘ Cause some people take on face value that they don’t like a person, but yet they don’t know that person. That’s taught me a lot. I only ever made one mistake in my life with one person, and I- that taught me a lot in, in respect of it to understand, but listen to what people are all about, listen to what their, their story is before making a judgment on them.

[00:41:23] **Permjeet Kainth:** And understanding, and that, that’s the connection part of it, and actually learning what, what they’re all about. Because you never know who’s around the corner. You never know who they know, they don’t know who you know, and that’s building that, that relationship and trusting people is understanding what they’re all about.

[00:41:40] **Permjeet Kainth:** Not just on their business, but on a personal level as well.

## [00:41:43] Was that a hard lesson to learn?

[00:41:43] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So was that a hard lesson to learn?

[00:41:46] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think at first it was. I had that meeting with somebody quite, quite a while ago, and it was … I, I, I am talking about maybe 35, I’m talking about 35 years ago.

[00:41:56] **Permjeet Kainth:** But it was like, it made me think twice about who I should actually speak to and say stuff to if I didn’t trust them, and not get to know what they’re all about. Offering a proposition to that was very, very, would have been very, very lucrative, but ended up being sidetracked with something else that he was trying to do.

[00:42:19] **Permjeet Kainth:** And then begin to realize he was deviating from it in terms of it, and then you just, then start to think, “Hang on a minute.” It’s just like yourself on the first networking event you went to, and about the conversation you had, or that person, and it didn’t, you know, he didn’t amount to much and you didn’t speak to again after that ’cause you turned around and said no to him, or whatever you said to him.

[00:42:38] **Permjeet Kainth:** That, that’s what it felt like with me. Do I trust the person in front of me? That’s where I started to sk- develo- the skills of getting to learn people and getting to know what they’re all about, and then asking them questions about what they’re actually offering or the service or the product, or what they put on their personal side of it.

[00:42:55] **Permjeet Kainth:** And that was the only thing you say to people, “If you, if you need a, if you need a shoulder, if you need someone to talk to, or you need someone to bounce ideas off, contact me. We all meet. Get to know what I’m all about, and I’ll get to know what you’re all about,” and that’s when we start building the trusted connection.

[00:43:08] **Permjeet Kainth:** Because I think what it is, you c- you could have a … You think you could have a brilliant conversation with somebody. You may give them an idea, and they may run away with it and do it themselves, earn their money from it, and not come back to you and say, “Cheers. Thank you very much,” or give them something in return.

[00:43:22] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s what, that’s what, that, that’s the hardest lesson to learn. That’s, I think, what he was doing. Was I was coming up with all the ideas, but he was actually implementing it and earning money from it, but he wasn’t telling me about it. So he was using me as a sounding board, but getting free advice from me at the same time.

[00:43:37] **Permjeet Kainth:** That, that’s what it’s all about

[00:43:40] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah, so that’s, definitely a lack of integrity o- on his part

[00:43:45] **Permjeet Kainth:** Without a doubt

[00:43:46] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. And once you realize that, that’s the end of that, that relationship because it’s abused your trust and your n- good nature

[00:43:56] **Permjeet Kainth:** Very, very true

## [00:43:57] Advice for young Permjeet

[00:43:57] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So if you could sit down with the younger Permjeet, what advice would you give him?

[00:44:04] **Permjeet Kainth:** you know me. Okay, that’s a hard one. When going into c- when going into a conversation, be a bit more open-minded, but also learn the core values of the person you’re actually speaking to. Understanding them and who they are and what their core values are is important. And when you have ideas, don’t be too free-flowing, flee- free, oh, free-flowing with your words.

[00:44:33] **Permjeet Kainth:** Don’t give them too much information when they can actually walk away and develop that idea for their own. That’s what I would say. Be more conscious. I would say do more active listening and more talking, which I’m now starting to learn more and more. And talking today, of course.

[00:44:51] **Ian Wilson:** That’s my job, to be the active listener today while you’re doing the, talking and sharing your wisdom.

[00:44:56] **Permjeet Kainth:** Thank you very much.

## [00:44:59] One lesson everyone should know

[00:44:59] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So over, over time, what’s one lesson you’ve learnt that you think everyone should know?

[00:45:05] **Permjeet Kainth:** Network people on a personal level more than the business, I would say. Develop them personal skills, interact with them, talk to them, offer a little bit of solutions, advice, but not too much. I think it w- it’s what… I think it’s actually building a relationship with the person, not thinking about the transactional side or the business side of it, or pitching the

[00:45:25] **Permjeet Kainth:** business, or trying to sell them something before I actually try to pitch or sell something to them. Get to know the person you’re actually talking to to see if they’re the right client

[00:45:31] **Ian Wilson:** that’s

## [00:45:32] Quick Fire Questions

[00:45:32] **Ian Wilson:** great that. Right, so thank you for answering all these wonderful qu- these questions, and thanks for your wonderful answers and sharing your knowledge.

[00:45:40] **Ian Wilson:** We’ve got a few quick, qui- few quick fire questions now for you.

[00:45:44] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah.

## [00:45:45] Quick Fire: Your Superpower

[00:45:45] **Ian Wilson:** And, obviously you can take as long as you want to answer these. so in a world of superheroes, what would your superpower be and why?

[00:45:53] **Permjeet Kainth:** Okay. How do you, I don’t know, you… Having the knowledge to interpret what people are saying without saying it

[00:46:01] **Ian Wilson:** That’s a different superpower, but a, an interesting one

[00:46:05] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah The knowledge to see the future. I wish I would have that one, but I don’t have. Yeah, it’s interpreting what people are saying without them actually saying it.

[00:46:13] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah.

[00:46:14] **Permjeet Kainth:** It’s reading between the lines.

[00:46:15] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. powerful s- powerful superpower.

[00:46:20] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah, it is.

## [00:46:21] Quick Fire: Three People from History

[00:46:21] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So if you could invite three people from history to dinner, who would they be?

[00:46:27] **Permjeet Kainth:** Oh, that would be … Okay, I’m going with it. Albert Einstein

[00:46:33] **Permjeet Kainth:** JFK that, yeah, you know who that is, JFK, don’t you?

[00:46:36] **Ian Wilson:** Yep

[00:46:38] **Permjeet Kainth:** Oh, what’s his name? Nostradamus

[00:46:41] **Ian Wilson:** Oh, that’s an interesting three people

[00:46:44] **Permjeet Kainth:** One’s a, a genius and mathematician. JFK

[00:46:48] **Permjeet Kainth:** brought the, the America together as a one unit. And Nostradamus predicted the future.

## [00:46:50] Quick Fire: The Conversation

[00:46:50] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So what would you hope the conversation would be?

[00:46:55] **Permjeet Kainth:** I would ask, uh, what’s it? What did, Einstein… Was it not that relativity?

[00:47:00] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah.

[00:47:02] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah. I would ask him how did he come up with that theory?

[00:47:04] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah.

[00:47:06] **Permjeet Kainth:** What would America look like in the future? And then, you know, that’s Nostradamus, will it come true?

## [00:47:13] Quick Fire: The Menu

[00:47:13] **Ian Wilson:** And what would the menu be?

[00:47:16] **Permjeet Kainth:** I don’t think it would be a starter. I think it’d be a steak for starter, with new potatoes, then green vegetables, a nice peppercorn sauce, and my favorite pudding of all time, a double chocolate gateau.

[00:47:31] **Ian Wilson:** Sounds good.

[00:47:31] **Permjeet Kainth:** With ice cream or fresh cream. Whichever.

[00:47:33] **Ian Wilson:** Or both

[00:47:34] **Permjeet Kainth:** it make me hungry now.

## [00:47:37] Quick Fire: Changed Your Mind

[00:47:37] **Ian Wilson:** What’s something you’ve completely changed your mind about?

[00:47:40] **Permjeet Kainth:** This is an odd one

[00:47:42] **Permjeet Kainth:** I can’t think of anything

[00:47:43] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think, I know it. I think, I would say, I don’t know whether it, this will be controversial. I think it’s arranged marriages. Because I, I didn’t think I’d ever have an arranged marriage, and yet I’ve been married 36 years, and I have two amazing kids and one little grandson

[00:47:59] **Ian Wilson:** Well, it must have worked for you then

[00:48:00] **Permjeet Kainth:** Sorry?

[00:48:00] **Ian Wilson:** It must have worked for you.

[00:48:02] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah, it did, definitely. One thing I wouldn’t do is if somebody said to me, “Would I recommend marriage?” I would say no. The reason being is ’cause relationships are two different people at two different… at a different time.

[00:48:15] **Permjeet Kainth:** And people are surprised when I say no. You say I’m… ’cause I’m, ’cause I’ve been married for nearly 30, well,

[00:48:20] **Permjeet Kainth:** I’ve been married for 36 years. It’s because my relationship was different at the time. You can’t predict two people who are gonna get married and the, the relationship gonna last, because my mum and dad were together for about 50-odd years. That’s another interesting topic for another day. Relationships.

## [00:48:29] Quick Fire: Biggest Impact Habit

[00:48:29] **Ian Wilson:** So what’s one habit that’s had the biggest impact on your life?

[00:48:34] **Permjeet Kainth:** My amazing wife they always say, “Behind a good man is a strong woman.” I did things that my mum was surprised I did. The story is, I… When I first got married, we went to the temples, and there was a place called “Laterite”And what it is, is that the temple was down here.

[00:48:51] **Permjeet Kainth:** the, the, the, the dining area was up, and all the way up is cobblestones and sharp rocks. My mum never thought I would walk on there without shoes or socks, and I did, because I followed my wife up behind her, and I did that, and she was surprised when I did that. That was one of the biggest things I, I thought I’d never do, and I did that.

[00:49:11] **Permjeet Kainth:** And I tell my wife is, the woman behind me is, is my pillar. Without her, I know that for a fact, my, my mum and dad passed away about what, 24 and 26 years ago. I went through a deep, bad depression, nearly committed suicide. And if it wasn’t for my wife and my kids, I don’t think I’d be here today.

[00:49:30] **Permjeet Kainth:** So that’s, my wife.

[00:49:32] **Ian Wilson:** Well, thank you to your wonderful wife, for being- No … your rock and your pillar. Pillar.

[00:49:38] **Permjeet Kainth:** She is.

## [00:49:39] Quick Fire: Most Grateful For

[00:49:39] **Ian Wilson:** what are you most grateful for today?

[00:49:41] **Permjeet Kainth:** I’d say my wife again. Yeah. My wife and my kids, my family.

[00:49:46] **Permjeet Kainth:** I, I couldn’t have be… I couldn’t have met a better woman if I was courting. Which changed an arranged marriage, and she’s the girl I fell in love with the first time. My mum and dad fell in love with her straight away when they saw her. Her mum fell in love with me. Because the story is, is that without… In, in 22nd of November, 1989, we went to India for the first time.

[00:50:03] **Permjeet Kainth:** Two… A day later, her mum came and saw me. She was absolutely, she was gobsmacked with me. I had a lot of hair then. I was a lot more slimmer. She went home and told my wife, said, “Your mum, da…” I’ll say it in English. “Yeah, he’s good-looking. He’s got hair. He’s got a slimly build.” She said, “Yeah.” And my wife turned around and said to her, “Well, Mum, why don’t you marry him?”

[00:50:24] **Permjeet Kainth:** That’s how much, you know. God rest her soul, she’s now passed away, my mother-in-law passed away. So she, yeah, that is, it, it was very important to me too, to… Because the strength behind it, her family were there all the time. They rang me up. They’d see where I was when I went through depression. They were there.

[00:50:40] **Permjeet Kainth:** And that’s why them, they were… them three, or now four, and my godson, they, I love them to bits,

## [00:50:45] Quick Fire: Question Never Asked

[00:50:45] **Ian Wilson:** That’s lovely, So what’s one question that you would love to answer but no one’s ever asked you?

[00:50:51] **Permjeet Kainth:** Okay. How old are you?

## [00:50:55] Quick Fire: The Answer

[00:50:55] **Ian Wilson:** All right. So what’s the answer, boss?

[00:50:58] **Permjeet Kainth:** What, how old am I?

[00:50:59] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah.

[00:51:00] **Permjeet Kainth:** How old do you think I look?

[00:51:02] **Ian Wilson:** Oh, I, I would say you’re around about the same age as me, so you’d be round about 60.

[00:51:08] **Permjeet Kainth:** 61. And you’re the only person ever to get it right. Everybody always said I’m about maybe 40 or 50. I don’t know whether they’re winding me up or not, and I always say, “Add so many years on top of that.”

[00:51:20] **Permjeet Kainth:** And they look at me, they look all gobsmacked.

[00:51:22] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah, so were you around f- well, obviously you were around for the World Cup, even though you weren’t paying attention when England, did it, 60 years ago.

[00:51:31] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah, ’66. I was only two years old.

[00:51:33] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah.

[00:51:34] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah. I was born in ’64.

[00:51:36] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. So I was, I was 10… I think I was 10 days old on the day of the final, and apparently I was still in hospital, so.

[00:51:44] **Permjeet Kainth:** It’s gonna be funny enough, if England get to the final and win it, it’s going to be on my grandson’s first birthday.

[00:51:50] **Ian Wilson:** Oh.

[00:51:51] **Permjeet Kainth:** The 19th of July. Isn’t that a blessing in disguise?

[00:51:54] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah. It is, yeah. So I think it w- I think it was about the 19th 60 years ago as well. Talking about that.

[00:52:02] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah.

## [00:52:04] What would your legacy be?

[00:52:04] **Ian Wilson:** So when people talk about Permjeet, years from now, what would you like them to remember? What would you like your legacy to be?

[00:52:13] **Permjeet Kainth:** I’d like my legacy to be, “Yeah, he was a fantastic guy, great to get on with, loved building personal connections with people, and a very down-to-earth person

## [00:52:22] What does working the coalface mean?

[00:52:22] **Ian Wilson:** That’s great, that. And finally, as you know, this is the pod- this podcast is called Coalface Stories. What does working the coalface mean to you?

[00:52:32] **Permjeet Kainth:** Is that a Coalface the miners thing?

[00:52:34] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah

[00:52:36] **Permjeet Kainth:** You know what? I, I never, I think it’s going back to the roots of the coalface when the first miners first had started out in terms of it. There’s s- there’s stories about what’s happened with the coal miner with Nottingham

[00:52:41] **Permjeet Kainth:** I think what it is, it’s actually about learning about all the other people in terms of it and how they are and how to develop skills, and the best way to help them move forward within whatever they’re doing, what endeavor they wanna do.

[00:52:52] **Permjeet Kainth:** Whether it’s in business or whether it’s in their, on their personal life, it’s understanding what people are all about, for me, is I think it’s what people need to think about when they, when they’re on their search to do what they wanna do in their life

## [00:53:05] How can listeners connect with you?

[00:53:05] **Ian Wilson:** That’s great, that, Permjeet So, um, how can the, the listeners find out more about you, connect with you on socials and things?

[00:53:13] **Permjeet Kainth:** As I tell you, if you look above, you’ll see my website there. You’ll see my contact number, also my email address there. I’m also searchable on your

[00:53:16] **Permjeet Kainth:** LinkedIn. If it’s an unusual name, you can search for, and get in contact with me. If they wanna learn more about my business and what I actually do and how I can actually help them get quality clients or help them market in the right way, contact me. We can always have a free conversation about it to get to know a bit about yourself and who you are, and you can get to know about me and what I do and all about myself.

[00:53:36] **Ian Wilson:** That’s great, Permjeet, and I would recommend, to the listeners to have that conversation with you because You’ll find out something about yourself and how you connect, and how you are visible to other people. So it’s, definitely worth having a conversation with Permjeet if you can.

[00:53:54] **Permjeet Kainth:** Yeah. Fantastic.

[00:53:56] **Ian Wilson:** So thank you- thank you, Permjeet, for, being a, a wonderful guest, and I hope you’ve enjoyed the conversation, and I hope the listeners have enjoyed your answers as well.

[00:54:07] **Permjeet Kainth:** Thank you very much. Ian, much appreciated . Thanks for having me as a guest.

[00:54:09] **Ian Wilson:** Yep. Thank you again, Permjeet, and thank you to the listeners for, taking the time out of your day to listen to this.