Paraag Amin

## [00:00:30] Intro & Welcome

[00:00:30] **Ian Wilson:** Hey up, and welcome to Coalface Stories. Today’s special guest has lived a remarkable journey from investment banking and the C-suite to helping entrepreneurs build businesses and lives that truly fit. I’m delighted to welcome [00:00:45] Paraag Amin to the 60 for 60 series. Hello, Paraag. How are you today?

[00:00:50] **Paraag Amin:** Hi, Ian.

[00:00:51] Thank you. Um, I’m good today and, uh, yeah, excited to be, uh, part of this. Appreciate the, the invite and look forward to our [00:01:00] conversation.

## [00:01:00] Who Are You Today?

[00:01:00] **Ian Wilson:** For the people that don’t know you, who is Paraag amin today, and what are you spending most of your time focused on?

[00:01:08] **Paraag Amin:** Um, so who am I today? Today I’m someone who, for the most part, lives [00:01:15] in the present, who, um, tries to experience everything that one can in, in life and tries to treat other people the way I would wanna be treated myself.

[00:01:26] I think that’s, um, through [00:01:30] 45-plus years of learning, experience, um, and living, uh, to really understand what’s truly important. So, you know, most people, I guess when, when you ask who they are, they, uh, they will talk about their job [00:01:45] and their origin story in terms of background and, and those sorts of things.

[00:01:50] For me, um, they’re really not important because, uh, who you are as a person, I think matters a lot more than a [00:02:00] CV or what you’ve done and, and, and ultimately, uh, the, who you are today because we change through life and, um, I’m sure we’ll come onto some of these things, but I’ve experienced a lot, changed a lot, seen a lot, and [00:02:15] because of that, the, the person I am today tries to keep things very simple, um, and live a life where I have choice ’cause to me, choice means freedom, um, and peace because peace [00:02:30] means I’m not continuously chasing things.

[00:02:33] Um, and as I say, for me, connection with people is very important. So, um, living the life I want with the people I’d like to [00:02:45] be around, treating them just as I would treat myself, uh, supporting them as a- as I would want support myself, um, and experiencing everything. So whether that’s travel, whether that’s, uh, [00:03:00] things that are more close to home.

[00:03:02] But I, I have a, a view that we, we came here to try everything and the things that we love do more of, and unless we try lots of things, we don’t really find out truly what we, what we love and [00:03:15] what we’re passionate about. So, um, livin’… That, that’s sort of, I guess, the short version. Obviously, I’m happy to go into the, uh, the more traditional answer if, if, uh, as and when.

[00:03:24] But yeah, for me today, it’s just peace and kindness[00:03:30]

[00:03:30] **Ian Wilson:** That, that’s great. So how, has life turned out how you expected it?

[00:03:36] **Paraag Amin:** Yes and no. Um, and the reason I say the, the yes part is because I’d say for probably just over [00:03:45] 40 years of my life, um, I’m 47 now, just for context, um, 40 years of my life I followed a path.

[00:03:52] So the, the, the goals were set, the targets were set, and it was a life of living from goal to goal [00:04:00] to goal. Now, whether that be at school, through university, through jobs, through personal life, and, and marriage and kids, and houses and cars and, and all those things that I think, um, [00:04:15] not only are we, uh, told we should have, but also often, um, i- it’s, it’s used as a form of measuring our success in life.

[00:04:27] Um, so I would say for a [00:04:30] lo- large part of my life, it was living goal to goal, and goal to goal meant, yes, it turned out as expected. But that’s half the story. So it turns out as expected in terms of on paper, but [00:04:45] the feelings, the joy, the pleasure, the emotions you’re supposed to get from hitting those goals, I say reduced over time each time a goal was hit.

[00:04:58] And, and part of the reason I think is [00:05:00] I forgot to enjoy the journey, and as soon as I got to a goal, it’s what’s the next one? Not even celebrate the goal for any period of time. So w- when living that life, [00:05:15] it, it was, as I say, partly as expected, but the other part was, well, the, the feelings didn’t come.

[00:05:20] And so what I’ve changed in the last, uh, really sort of started seven years ago, but really the last four, five years have been [00:05:30] more, um, have, have been an even greater change, is forget goals. Ha- have no goals in life, therefore no expectation, therefore live in the present as much as possible. Not worry about what will happen, let alone 10 minutes, 10 [00:05:45] hours, 10 days, but also 10 weeks, 10 months, 10 years.

[00:05:49] Life will bring what it will bring. Mm-hmm. And, and the way I look at it now, if I am content in the present, the present, every present [00:06:00] moment going forward becomes the future, in which case the future plays out. So ha- but having no goals also does one thing. One, for me, very important thing. So when you set goals, you’re on a path If you come off the path, you [00:06:15] feel frustrated, annoyed, angry, upset, um, because you set a path and you come off of it.

[00:06:22] However, when you set no goals and you have no path, infinite possibilities open up. So really anything can happen [00:06:30] anytime. That’s the beauty of life, just allowing those things to happen as and when they do, rather than trying to control everything, trying to, uh, force a life that [00:06:45] was probably one that was told to you by parents, society to live versus just let things happen and flow, and that’s when the magic happens.

[00:06:58] That’s when you meet [00:07:00] incredible people who you would never really have thought you might come across. It’s when the opportunities arise to maybe go to places you wouldn’t have thought of to, um, to see things you would, you might not have see- seen, to experience things you might not have. So having [00:07:15] no fixed goal other than allowing things to happen, being free, giving yourself the choice every morning to wake up and say, “Okay, what do I feel like doing today?”

[00:07:27] Whether that’s what do I feel like eating, what do I feel like [00:07:30] doing, let it happen and let it flow. And I think once, once I’ve done that, l- suddenly life has changed dramatically. The people I’ve met, the people who’ve come into my life who were there in the past and have, have reentered, the people who were there and [00:07:45] have gone, the, the places I’ve traveled to, the, the, the things I’ve seen, the opportunities that have come up, it’s, it’s all because of changing the mindset from I’ve got to hit these specific goals to now [00:08:00] let life bring what it brings.

[00:08:03] **Ian Wilson:** It takes some action to actually break free from that, that programming we’ve all grown up with from society, education, everything.

## [00:08:13] Childhood

[00:08:13] **Ian Wilson:** So, uh, [00:08:15] just take us back a little bit, Paraag. What sort of child were you?

[00:08:20] **Paraag Amin:** Very good question. I was never a child, and that’s part of the problem. I was always f- uh, my, even my, my parents probably said it, [00:08:30] thought it, m- t- more mature than my years. So I was the one who– I remem- and I remember this vividly. They, they went to a, a, I guess it was a party of some sort where there was a raffle.

[00:08:41] I was maybe three years old, [00:08:45] and they won the raffle, and they came home with a VCR and a, and a hi-fi system, if, if, uh, people remember what those are. Um, I was the one who fixed it for them. They didn’t know what to do with it. [00:09:00] Ever since I was young, um, I have a brother who’s, uh, a couple years younger. Uh, my sister’s 10 years younger, so she wasn’t necessarily there when I was really young.

[00:09:09] But I was always sort of told, “Look after your brother, be a role model, be [00:09:15] good.” So part of me was always, um, the mature one who had to set the example, who, uh, had to be good. So my childhood was very controlled by me. M- I was in my head a lot. It was nev- [00:09:30] I was never really that child who would show their emotions, who would be screaming around, rolling around, running around.

[00:09:39] I was just that kid who was in, in his head studying all the [00:09:45] time, um, always wanting to learn things, always wanting to, um, to, to grow up faster than I, I should have. And so that, um, has its pros and cons. But ultimately, I think the, the, [00:10:00] the, the biggest downside to that is when you’ve never been a child in the true sense, that emotional expression that children should be doing, um, doesn’t come [00:10:15] naturally So you have to learn, it sounds crazy, you have to learn to feel, have to learn to actually express emotions, have to learn to actually to say to people how I feel or how they make [00:10:30] me feel.

[00:10:30] All those things were, were just never there because as a child I was, it was partly the, the, the more mature for the years, but partly told, you know, I think a lot of boys in the ’70s, ’80s were told, you know, boys don’t cry, boys have to be strong, boys have [00:10:45] to, um, you know, just man up, um, boys don’t get ill.

[00:10:50] There’s so many of these things that shape us as, as a child that you don’t realize until you go into adulthood and, [00:11:00] um, have to actually interact in an adult way with people, um, that we’re just not very good at it to start off with. And it’s, it’s a, it’s a huge learning process. And so, um, that childhood for me, so I grew up in, um, [00:11:15] well, we lived in South London.

[00:11:16] I went to school in, uh, in Kent. Um, but for me, I think the, the biggest thing about my childhood was, uh, I always felt different because I looked different. Um, being of [00:11:30] Indian descent in a, what is, what was really a just, uh, very white British areas, I felt different. But what that meant was I was told, um, and therefore I, I guess I believed it, I had to [00:11:45] work harder than everyone else just to be at the same level.

[00:11:48] So that, that was partly the motivation. It’s, um, if you wanna be top of the class, you’re gonna have to work extremely hard. If you wanna be successful, even, you know, I, I was head boy [00:12:00] of the school. I was sports, like, captains of football teams, rugby teams, cricket teams. I was playing in age groups sometimes two, three years above me.

[00:12:09] I was getting full marks in most of the exams. So all round it was great, but I [00:12:15] never felt that. I just felt that was expected. That was just, i- you know, if I wasn’t doing that, I’d be really be failing. And so the, the standards I set myself were probably incredibly high. And- [00:12:30] Now I look back and I think as a child that’s not great, but it was what it was.

[00:12:36] I … That, that shaped me, um, some, in some good ways and some less good ways, let’s say. Um, but [00:12:45] yeah, so feeling different. And then I think for me the biggest change was going from my prep school at 13 where I was, you know, the big fish in a small pond, to suddenly going, and I, I went to, to Sevenoaks [00:13:00] which, you know, is thousand plus people school.

[00:13:03] Um, also going from an all-boys school to a mixed school, and suddenly I’m a tiny fish in a massive pond where I wasn’t the best at everything. I was good at a [00:13:15] lot of things, and so, you know, the only thing I could probably say I was the best at was, like, playing cricket, and so I probably did more of that and sort of went towards that.

[00:13:26] But ultimately, um, that was [00:13:30] a, a real, uh, shock to the system when suddenly you’re, I’m in a new environment with, um, different people, uh, without the same, say, support network around because you’re older and you get [00:13:45] less of the sort of pastoral care at, at larger schools than you do at, at smaller schools.

[00:13:50] Um, and so it, it, it’s probably where I then went into my shell and stopped being me and s- and tried to be the person everyone else, [00:14:00] uh, would like and would r- would respect. And so I, I think that was the, the beginning of kind of losing myself to some extent, and that probably continued into university, continued into jobs, and, um, and probably in, in, in [00:14:15] relationships and, and, and it’s taken me years to be me again.

[00:14:20] And that, that I think was probably the, um, the hardest thing to recognize when looking back on life. Um, [00:14:30] but it’s all shapes from childhood, and that, that childhood experience of, um, having to be the best but not feeling that that was amazing, it was just, “Okay, that’s just expected,” um, [00:14:45] shaped a lot of things that then happened through life

## [00:14:49] Career in Business & Finance

[00:14:49] **Ian Wilson:** Did you always imagine a career in business and finance while you were in education?

[00:14:54] **Paraag Amin:** It’s interesting. So I, um, from a young age, was [00:15:00] always of the mindset, I have to have a job that pays a lot of money, and that probably came from m- my parents telling me… Look, w- well, they, they weren’t well off. Uh, they were okay, but, um, you know, I, I got scholarships to go to schools, things like [00:15:15] that. So, um, it was always f- maximize your financial potential, I guess, was the key.

[00:15:21] So from a young age, initially… It’s funny, I, uh, there’s, there’s this test which you may have taken back in the day called the Morrisby [00:15:30] Test, which kind of tells you what careers you’re suited for, and at that point, it was, like, telling me actuary and, and all sorts of other things. And, and so, um, it was probably when I was around 12, 13 that I [00:15:45] just said, “Okay, I can now see I, I have to work in a bank.

[00:15:48] I just have to go work in investment banks ’cause they pay a lot of money.” Um, so that, that was a goal, and therefore everything I did from there, subjects I chose, um, the, [00:16:00] the university degree I did, it was… It, it’s a course which is not very well known. Uh, I went to UCL and it was a course called SCORE, which is Statistics, Computing, Operational Research, uh, and Economics, and that was designed to go into banking.

[00:16:14] We did [00:16:15] modules in corporate finance and game theory and some of those things. So everything… Yeah, to be fa- everything I did as a teenager ultimately was always to get into a bank. And so, um, fortunately I [00:16:30] was able to do a few internships, um, b- before even finishing university in banks and had o- had offers to join various banks before I’d, I’d finished my degree.

[00:16:41] So, um, but I was single-minded, focused [00:16:45] on that and really nothing else, and I dunno whether that’s a good thing or bad thing, but it was all ultimately driven by scarcity, um, as, as a, as a child.

[00:16:57] **Ian Wilson:** Yes. I, I’ve heard this several times, [00:17:00] uh, especially with par- uh, children of parents that’s co- come over from India and elsewhere, that they want the children to be better themselves and be better than, so they put all their effort into you achieving more [00:17:15] than them, and that, that probably shaped your mindset from being very young.

[00:17:22] **Paraag Amin:** Yeah, for sure. Like, most of my family, um, in terms of, of actually even some cousins now, but aunts, uncles, um, [00:17:30] everyone’s in medicine. They’re all doctors. And then actually my, my dad, ironically, he, he was really disappointed that I went into banking and not became a doctor, ’cause he w- he was a pharmacist, um, as a few of my other [00:17:45] cousins are.

[00:17:45] And so, um, for him, bettering would be being a doctor because… And also from my mom’s point of view, a doctor has a job for life, so you’ve got the security. So, so to some extent it was actually when, when I, when I said, “I’m going to work at Goldman [00:18:00] Sachs,” it was like, yeah, but that’s not really… Still, it wasn’t ever celebrated.

[00:18:05] It wasn’t ever seen as a good thing. It was just, “Well, you’re not a doctor, are you?” So I was like, “Okay, great.” Um, so th- there is that. There’s the, there’s, there’s the bettering them, [00:18:15] sure, but the way they look at it is twofold. One is job for life and s- st- stability and security, and then the second is kind of just the, the, the things they know ’cause, ’cause I guess part of it is they just didn’t know about other jobs ’cause c- [00:18:30] coming, you know, their path was from India to East Africa to, to, to the UK.

[00:18:34] And in India, they, there’s only really three or four degrees, so you either become a doctor or something in the medical field, um, you do, um, [00:18:45] uh, engineering- And that could then end up in the computing field now, but engineering. Um, you do home economics and, and that’s more probably was designed for women ultimately.

[00:18:56] And then the fourth one was kind of, uh, it’s called a BCom, business and [00:19:00] commerce, which was actually seen as like, well, you can’t do anything else, so you might as well do that one. But that’s where actually the whole, um, banking industry was born and the whole, um, finance industry, uh, you know, would’ve done.

[00:19:14] So [00:19:15] it was, it was almost seen as less intellectual, less, um, less of a, of a, of a thing. And, and so yeah, when, when you say, okay, you’re going to university and you’re gonna study computing and economics and statistics and… But it’s not [00:19:30] medicine, is it? So it’s quite, it’s quite funny. But, um, I, I, you know, obviously I, I just wasn’t suited to be a doctor, first of all, in, in that sense.

[00:19:39] But secondly, um, I genuinely love, um, looking at [00:19:45] businesses, looking at the way the world works. Um, I studied AI as a kid. Like literally, I, I was working, I did an internship when I was 15 or, or 16, I guess, at Racal, which is a government agency, um, [00:20:00] helping them to build the first artificial intelligence neural networks that, that were being built to do at that time, optical character recognition.

[00:20:07] Wrote my, uh, international bac extended essay at 17, 18 on, on artificial neural networks. I’ve, I worked in [00:20:15] the tech sector for the, for my most of my banking life. I’ve worked in tech in my, uh, sort of corporate life too. So for me, um, I love the intellectual side of everything I’ve done. Probably less the [00:20:30] politics, which is kind of why I guess I am where I am today.

[00:20:33] But, um, for me, yeah, doing, doing what my parents or my dad particularly wanted them on the medicine side just wouldn’t have worked. So in that sense, bettering them was [00:20:45] definitely their goal. Um, I guess I chose my own path.

## [00:20:50] Defining Moments in Banking Career

[00:20:50] **Ian Wilson:** As you just mentioned, you spent years in investment banking, uh, leadership and C-suite roles.

[00:20:56] Looking back, what were the defining [00:21:00] moments of that journey?

[00:21:02] **Paraag Amin:** Um, there’s probably five or six things that come to mind immediately, but the first one, it’s, it’s a funny thing. So we, I, I was lucky enough to, um, get a, a, an [00:21:15] graduate job at Goldman Sachs and, um, it wa- this was, uh, I guess s- some… Well, it was 1999 to start in 2000.

[00:21:28] The dotcom bubble was [00:21:30] happening. There was a lot of competition for the brightest minds and all sorts. And so before we even started, we were given an £8,000 pay rise just to, to make sure we didn’t go somewhere else. Um, and that was just funny anyway. You haven’t [00:21:45] started a day of work and, and, and I think, I think at the time the, the base salary was, went from 27 to 35K, which at the time we th- you thought you’ve won the jackpot and you’ve, like, making loads of money and then, and then you suddenly realize that actually in the scheme of the world when you, the hours you’re [00:22:00] working, you’re earning less than a McDonald’s employee, but that’s a whole different story.

[00:22:03] So the first part was, um, ’cause wh- and what happens is that you’re sent to New York, uh, as part of the global training for two months. And so the s- the start of my working life was [00:22:15] literally, “Here you go. Corporate credit card. You’re in New York City. Just go and enjoy, enjoy the city. Just make sure you turn up to all the lectures.”

[00:22:24] Um, and that was, that was like, “Wow, okay. This is, this is really the life.” And then you get back to [00:22:30] London and suddenly the work really begins and the hours kick off and, uh, you know, I can say this, I, I s- I worked for one… the first year living at home with my parents, and I didn’t see them for a whole year because you’re leaving before they [00:22:45] wake up, you’re getting back be- after they go to sleep, and you’re working weekends.

[00:22:50] And so I bought a flat in Whitechapel at the time just to be close to work because it was just crazy. There was… And so the, the job [00:23:00] consumes you. So the first part is when you’re y- when you’re young working in investment banking, it’s a test. It’s a test of your stamina. It’s a test of your mental strength.

[00:23:08] Can you actually handle it? It’s not, nothing’s difficult in relative terms, but it’s ha- it’s just can you [00:23:15] put in the hard yards? And if you can do that and survive, and probably I’d say 80% of people don’t in the first few years, if you can survive that, then you’re ready. Um, so the first part is, yeah, you’re, you’re given, you’re almost shown what could be [00:23:30] possible because you’re given kind of the freedom to go and enjoy life, and suddenly then you’re, then you’re, then you’re really chained to your desk and work a lot.

[00:23:38] The next thing I think, uh, I realized is, okay, I moved from Goldman to, to Citi, to [00:23:45] Credit Suisse, to a number of other places. But you realize that actually you, where you think you’re at the pinnacle of, um, corporate world, the systems were terrible. The, the, the, the infrastructure that a lot of these [00:24:00] banks had was so archaic and old, and you’re, you’re like, “How is this the peak of, um, operational efficiency from, from a corporate point of view?”

[00:24:08] And so that was really interesting, just realizing that what looks amazing from the outside, because they have these nice shiny [00:24:15] offices, and you go into the meeting rooms for, for external clients, and they look amazing. And then you go into the actual desks of the internal, uh, mechanics of, uh, of, of the companies.

[00:24:24] And we used to call it, um, Disneyland. It’s like, because it’s like Mickey Mouse [00:24:30] stuff going on. And, and that was interesting. So people are people, and I think that was one of the things I learned. And because people are people, there’s always gonna be a huge amount of politics Where there, I’ve, I’ve just, I’ve realized where there are people, there’s [00:24:45] politics, and that’s because the, everyone has their insecurities, no matter how, how far up the ladder they are, no matter who that person is.

[00:24:53] And so that was probably one very big learning, that even if a person is very senior, they will [00:25:00] still try and put you down, even if you are the most junior person on the team, because they’re still scared that that junior person one day can replace them or can take away some of their bonus pot or whatever that might be.

[00:25:11] And so the politics element I fo- I [00:25:15] found from, from my personal experience, um, actually hinders the, the business from growing as fast as it could and from doing as well as it could, because you’re not really collaborating as a team because you’re almost [00:25:30] fighting against each other for promotions, for the, for the bonus pots, for all these things.

[00:25:35] And so for me, I learned the type of culture I didn’t like. And so I, so there’s a lot of learning of, um, of, of how people think, how [00:25:45] people behave, um, what drives certain people, but most importantly, what I didn’t like. And I think that, uh, so I, I, you know, I’ve… The longest I’ve ever been in one company is four years, and those were my first couple of jobs and then the first CFO job that I [00:26:00] had.

[00:26:00] Um, beyond that, usually 18 to 24 months, ’cause I’ve kind of learned everything I think I need to learn, and then, um, move on to, to ex- experience something else. And, and so for me, the, the [00:26:15] experience of working for different companies, wearing different hats, doing different jobs, um, again, like I said at the start, experience everything.

[00:26:24] So not just being a role for life, a company for life. [00:26:30] I, I, I think for me that would be the definition of a nightmare. Um, but being able to chop and change, to learn new skills, to meet different people, to, um, to grow as a person, both f- intellectually from a, from a work point [00:26:45] of view, but also emotionally from meeting different people, being in different environments, seeing different things, helping different people, I think that, uh, for me has been the incredible part of that journey.

[00:26:56] It’s, it’s, the titles, the, the money, [00:27:00] all of that, it’s irrelevant. You get to a point in life where you realize that the experiences you’ve had with people, with the, the learnings you’ve had, the, and all of these things are just a lot, lot more important [00:27:15] than the material side of things and, you know, what people think in terms of, um, ah, is that person successful?

[00:27:24] Is that not… All, you know, all those external measures and all those things like, uh, the, the, [00:27:30] what other people think and, and caring about that- It’s all gone. Uh, yeah, it’s, it’s something I think a lot of people probably do in their 20s, 30s, and, and hopefully by the time you get into your 40s, it’s just you realize that that’s not what’s important in life.

[00:27:43] And the, the [00:27:45] truly important things in life are how you make people feel, how you feel, the, the time you spend with, um, the people you love, the people you care about, being present with, with [00:28:00] kids, being present with, um, friends and family, et cetera. All of, all of those things are far more important than the success metrics.

[00:28:07] And so I, so I… L- l- the last thing I’ll, I’ll say on the work bit is the biggest [00:28:15] observation I had, there are so many people who escape into work because they’re not sure about their life, because there’s, uh, certain things that weren’t necessarily, um, they didn’t feel as, as maybe [00:28:30] they should, like I did.

[00:28:30] You know, you get the success but you don’t feel successful. So where do you go? Work, because workaholism is an accepted Uh, like just thing. It’s, it’s… If you say to someone, “Sorry, I just can’t make the [00:28:45] party tomorrow night because I’m working,” or, uh, “This weekend, I, I just have to work so I can’t do this, this,” people accept that.

[00:28:54] If you said, “I can’t make the party because actually I’m just tired and can’t be bothered”, [00:29:00] “Come on, g- you gotta come.” And so the workaholism becomes a very easy excuse for a lot of people to use, but also it becomes a very easy thing to escape when things aren’t necessarily as you want them in your life.

[00:29:13] And I, I see that with a lot of, [00:29:15] uh, new fathers. It’s just much easier to be at work than it is to look after a baby, right? From a mental standpoint. Physically it’s easy and everything, but you know, nappies feeding, nappies feeding, nappies feeding. It’s like just a, just a routine. But no, I’ve [00:29:30] gotta work. So work- workaholism, and I see that with a lot of people in investment banks at CC level.

[00:29:38] If you say, “Okay-

[00:29:40] **Ian Wilson:** Yeah …

[00:29:41] **Paraag Amin:** give up your job and just go and enjoy time with your family. You’ve made enough money. You don’t need [00:29:45] any more money,” they can’t. It’s just… It- it’s almost like you’re addicted to it, because you’re addicted to the feeling, the power, the success, what other people think. Partly the money, but mainly it’s [00:30:00] because everything in life has been geared towards that, that if you lose it, who are you?

[00:30:05] And that’s why when you s- at the start when you ask, “Who are you?” most people do start with, “I do this,” or, uh… But you take that work away, and that’s [00:30:15] what I’ve found. As soon as I took away the titles, the corporate crap, and just said, “I’m doing something to try and help people. I’ll use my experience to help you,” and then, then everything just becomes a lot more comfortable, easy, [00:30:30] um, without the pressure.

[00:30:32] And I don’t need to escape anywhere. And I think that’s, that for me is the observation, that so many people I worked with were just at work because they didn’t wanna be at home, or they didn’t wanna be elsewhere.

## [00:30:44] Turning Point & Escaping the Corporate World

[00:30:44] **Ian Wilson:** So [00:30:45] did you have a turning point where you were suddenly realized that you needed to escape from that world?

[00:30:50] **Paraag Amin:** Yeah, so, um- There were, there were three things, I think. So three points. W- [00:31:00] the first was, so I, I worked, um, until tw- I guess 2011 for banks. Then, um, I had my own startup for a few years, and then my oldest [00:31:15] daughter was born in 2015, and I was kinda to- go back to earning a stable income.

[00:31:20] So I worked in banks for a couple years. But that experience of going back into banking with a few years out, I just knew I didn’t really fit in. And so [00:31:30] it w- I was literally single-minded focused on, okay, how do I move away from a banking career into a corporate career? And so I spent three years really just getting to know lots of companies very closely, management teams, and turned out that one of those [00:31:45] companies, Dotdigital, became good friends with the CEO at the time, and, um, and eventually they needed a, a CFO, and so he hired me.

[00:31:54] So th- that, that was … W- when you, when you step back [00:32:00] from something and then go back into it with a fresh pair of eyes, I think you then realize whether you really love it or you don’t. And so taking that break f- for a few years and doing something different was the first part. The second part then is actually I was in, [00:32:15] whilst in my, uh, corporate career as CFO, on the day of my 40th birthday and the day after, I was sat in A&E on

[00:32:21] a drip My blood sugar had gone to 23. I was, you know, it’s supposed to be between four and five ideally. [00:32:30] Um, I’d, but I’d felt the, the side effects, let’s say, of type two diabetes probably for years before that. But the, the six months before my eyesight went, everything… I just didn’t want to accept that I was stressed and my [00:32:45] body was trying to tell me something.

[00:32:46] And so, um, that was a, a wake up call in terms of get your mind and body healthy again to be… ‘Cause it was stress-related. And so I was [00:33:00] on the drugs that they put you on for three months. Um, and I… It was determined. It’s like I’m, I’m gonna reverse this ’cause I know it can be done and I’m not gonna take… So I haven’t taken drugs now for over seven years.

[00:33:11] Um, just control it through mindset and diet, right? [00:33:15] Um, but it was a big wake up call to, to go, “Actually, I’m not invincible. My body will give up if I don’t do the right things and live the right way.” So that, that, that then meant I kind of changed the way I approached work. The [00:33:30] pandemic helped to a large extent for me as well, because it was a couple of years of, um, being able to also spend more time with my kids, but also more importantly, spend, spend time with me alone, with myself.

[00:33:44] And that [00:33:45] helps a lot because you start to feel into really what matters, what, what, how you’re wired, et cetera. But the biggest turning point, ironically, was about four years ago. I was on a family holiday with my parents, my brother and [00:34:00] sister, and, um, I just spent a fair amount of time talking to my sister at the time.

[00:34:05] This was in Valencia in Spain. Um, and one day she just said to me, it’s like, “Your energy is just terrible and, and, and you’re just [00:34:15] still living in the past. And so, and stop complaining about- What might have happened when you were younger, what happened, you know, other people, et cetera. You’re an adult, take responsibility for your life.

[00:34:26] And she’s 10 years younger than me, so coming from my kid sister, it was kind of like, okay. [00:34:30] But it was a wake-up call in the sense that I’d ha- I’d changed the, the, the stress from work, I’d changed my eating habits and lifestyle, but the mental side was still not there. And so that was the start of actually the mental work.

[00:34:44] And it was, [00:34:45] um, starting with actually doing a, a bit more meditation, a bit more, um, uh, trying to get calm, but then a lot of reading, a lot of speaking to people, a lot of watching a l- [00:35:00] many podcasts and, and trying to read a lot of books. And so I’ve probably read a few hundred books in the last few years, um, listened to all sorts of podcasts, done a lot of research into everything.

[00:35:13] And plus, I was lucky enough that [00:35:15] I’ve met a couple of my mentors who really helped guide me on, um, my mind and my body in terms of, um, how I think and how I feel. And so, um, everything kind of just fell into place, and that’s, again, I think when you [00:35:30] open up to let, let things come be– and you’ll meet the right people, and the- things will happen at the right time.

[00:35:36] And so that, that single change led me on the journey I guess I’m on now of, um, trusting the [00:35:45] universe, understanding, um, a lot more about, um, energy and maximizing energy and, and how to do that, uh, learning a lot about myself and what drives me, what [00:36:00] motivates me, what, what I need, understanding my design of what, what I’m good at, what I’m less good at, um, my purpose, um, and what really, really motivates me.

[00:36:12] And so that, [00:36:15] um, was almost a reset of, okay, start with a blank sheet of paper. Let’s redesign life. What is it I… want to do? What is it I enjoy doing? What is it I can do? And how can I use this experience that I’ve had from [00:36:30] everything I’ve done to then move forward? And so actually initially when I sort of started what I, what I’m doing now, the first thought point was, okay, let’s help people reverse type 2 diabetes.

[00:36:40] But then you realize, well, I’m not a doctor. You know, as I said, I would– I never wanted to [00:36:45] become a doctor. And so I can help people if they, if they wanna talk about it in terms of, um, lifestyle changes and, and eating patterns and, and I, I know all the science behind it and I’ve, and I’ve done it, right?

[00:36:56] And all the health studies like, um, I’ve done the ZOE health [00:37:00] study and wear continuous glucose monitors, all these things. So I understand all of that, but it’s, it’s, it’s not my passion. It’s just– it’s my lived experience. Then it kinda moved into… And, and this is where it beg- So it began with helping people with their mindset and helping people just to get [00:37:15] happy and feel free and, and live to the values that they wanna live to.

[00:37:20] Because a lot of people, they have the values, but then don’t live to them because of various reasons. But actually what I realized, and this is where I’ve now come to a point, is obviously I’ve got a lot [00:37:30] of strategic experience, corporate experience. I’ve worn pretty much every hat you could wear. And so using that experience to help, whether it’s founders of new businesses, whether it’s entrepreneurs who have built something [00:37:45] but have got to a point where they’re stuck, whether it’s just strategically helping people with changing their mindset to help them take them to the next level.

[00:37:53] Because the key for me, and this is I guess, um, my journey and probably everyone’s journey, is [00:38:00] you build a life based on what you thought probably first in your teenage years, then in your early 20s And do you ever then change the roadmap? Sometimes people might change [00:38:15] in their late, mid-20s, late 20s, maybe early 30.

[00:38:18] But by the time you get into your mid-40s, you’ve built a life that was actually based on an old version of you that thought they wanted something. And then you get to a point and you’re like, “Well, hold on. That’s not me anymore. I’m, I’m [00:38:30] changed. I’m a different person. What do I need now?” Very few people take that blank sheet of paper, w- you know, whether it’s when they turn 40 or whether when they turn 45, whatever that might be, and go, “Well, okay, who am I today?

[00:38:42] And if I was building my life today, what would that [00:38:45] look like versus what I’ve already built?” And you can’t d- completely destroy everything you ever had, but what you can do, which is what I try and do, use the experience that I’ve le- built up to then build something that [00:39:00] I love doing and enjoy for the future.

[00:39:03] And that is supporting people, filling the gaps in their skill set, helping them to succeed. And that’s what I get joy out of, and talking [00:39:15] to people. And, and, and, you know, I’ve… On this path, part of it has been spiritual, so I look at human design, I look at Vedic birth charts, I look at, um, the elements and w- how balanced people are in terms of their, their [00:39:30] body.

[00:39:30] I look at many other things. I won’t go into all the details on all those things now, but, um, helping people to understand who they are, helping people to find their path, their purpose, the one they want, not [00:39:45] the one that their parents chose, not the one that society chose for them. It’s, it’s that. And so, uh, getting people aligned to who they are, I love those conversations.

[00:39:54] I love trying to help people to, to, to be bigger than what they probably think they can [00:40:00] be, because we all have that capacity. We just don’t always have the champions to help us to actually support us on that journey. And so, I guess, it’s, for me, it’s almost I’m trying to be the person I wish I had for me [00:40:15] when I was going through my journey for others.

[00:40:17] And, um, and you meet some great, I met some great people. I’ve… Luckily, as I’ve said, I’ve traveled the world. Um, I have very good friends all the way from Brazil on one side to Korea on the other [00:40:30] side and everywhere in between. And I’ve lived a few years in places like Bratislava in Eastern Europe and traveled a lot to Gdansk and Poland and spent a lot of time in the US in my early years and Far East in [00:40:45] some of the tech years.

[00:40:46] So I’ve, I’ve been lucky enough to see the world, travel the world, meet a lot of interesting people. But the commonality across the world is We come into this life as an innocent, empty soul, right? We may have some [00:41:00] past lives and whatever you believe in that sense, but ultimately, you- we come in with amnesia.

[00:41:03] We, we don’t know anything. We have layers and layers and layers of structure, of, uh, things we should supposed to do, and, and expectations put on [00:41:15] us through life. At some point, we all break, no matter who that is, and at that point, wherever you are in the world, you have two options. You escape or you face it.

[00:41:28] Escape, drink, [00:41:30] drugs, s- violence, porn, sex, technology, and now with AI, easy. Work. Those are the two biggest escapisms, but we– people go down that path. The alternative [00:41:45] path is you face it, and that’s hard. You have to go inside, and you have to go, “Okay, who am I? What, what am I supposed to be doing here?” And that’s where I feel if you have support, it’s the right [00:42:00] path.

[00:42:00] It’s a path that will then get you towards the values you truly wanna live to. Most people, if you ask them, “What would you want in life?” The word that always comes up is freedom. But what does freedom mean? To me, freedom means peace and [00:42:15] choice. But also, freedom can only be achieved with structure. ‘Cause if you say to someone, “Okay, you’re just free to do whatever you want all the time,” actually people go mad because they haven’t got any structure in place.

[00:42:27] However, if you put a structure which is, “I’m gonna [00:42:30] spend three hours a day with the people I love, three hours a day doing, doing the things I love, and three hours a day working.” It could be six hours a day, whatever. A couple of hours a day eating, but that will vary every day. Who I see, what I do, what…

[00:42:44] [00:42:45] You’ve got structure, but you’ve now got choice, and you therefore you’ve got freedom, and you’ll have the peace because you’re doing the things you love with the people you love. So getting people to that state They can be successful then in their business. [00:43:00] They can be successful in their relationships.

[00:43:02] They will be healthier mentally, physically. And that, to me, is life. Once y- you are at peace, once you have choice, and you have therefore that [00:43:15] freedom, life becomes simple. But getting there on your own is incredibly tough. With support, it’s slightly easier, but you still have to put in the work. But as we all know, [00:43:30] nothing amazing comes without hard work.

[00:43:33] But if we put in that hard work, the amazing things will come, and that’s my belief, that, um, we can all live the life we want. And the abundance will flow once you’re aligned. But getting [00:43:45] aligned and living to your values, that’s what we spend 30, 40, 50 years sometimes misaligned because of everything society and the world tells us.

[00:43:58] And then we s- then after that we’re like, [00:44:00] “Okay, how, how do we align again? How do we find that young child in us?” So the, the, the fast track path, which, uh, you know, I speak to a few friends and others about, start doing the things you loved doing as a child. In fact, start… If you can spend time with children, [00:44:15] whether it’s your own or whether it’s family or whoever, spend time with kids, because they don’t care what titles you have, how much money.

[00:44:22] They just want your presence. They just wanna be noticed, engaged, doing the things they love with [00:44:30] you. And, and so that, going back to that, you know, and that’s where… So music plays a huge part in my life, and there are many songs that I just listen to a lot around the lyrics. But that return to innocence, one of enigma’s that is it.

[00:44:44] You go back to [00:44:45] being the, the you that came into this world that was an innocent soul that just did things they, that you loved, that childhood that even I probably did that when I was two, three years old, but then I suddenly grew up. But pl- for me, making Lego. I have an entire Lego [00:45:00] room. Dancing, listening to music, playing sport, watching sport.

[00:45:03] These are the things I love, so I make sure they are in my life. And then there are certain people in my life I just love spending time with, so again, I make sure they’re in my life. The work bit, [00:45:15] do the, do something you really truly enjoy and love. Well, then suddenly life is life. There is no work life.

[00:45:20] There is no, “I’ve gotta do that and then I’ve gotta do the fun stuff.” It’s, well, life is fun. So getting to that point I think is [00:45:30] where we would love to get to. And so trying to help people to understand that, that it isn’t just about building the biggest business and making thousands and thousands a month and…

[00:45:40] Well, it’s not really going to give you the fulfillment. And, and someone asked [00:45:45] me a poignant question, um, a few months back, “At your eulogy, what would you want said?” And when you think about it that way- How you make people feel and the, and the legacy and the [00:46:00] impact you leave on this earth. Because if you think about it, we can’t probably name more than about 10 people who are older than, well, who, who lived more than 500 years ago or something, and 500 years is a lot.

[00:46:13] So, but within two or three [00:46:15] generations, no one will remember us for the most part. So therefore, the only people you’re leaving a legacy for are the people who you, you, this generation, the one below, and probably the one below that. So have the biggest impact on those people. Live [00:46:30] the life that they, you know, they wanna be around you, they wanna listen to you, they wanna spend time with you.

[00:46:35] They, they enjoy your company, right? That’s, that’s the point we wanna get to. Um, and to do that, we’ve gotta find inner [00:46:45] peace. We’ve gotta find who we are, and we’ve gotta live a life that is true to ourselves and not… And this is, this is probably something that I inferred earlier, wearing masks or costumes [00:47:00] to try and be accepted by other people, whether that be at school, whether that be in jobs, whether that be in relationships- Mm

[00:47:07] whether that be with society. Once you start wearing these masks, you’re no longer [00:47:15] essentially living with integrity. You’re actually living a disintegrated life. And then you have to remember who are you with that person and who are you with that person. And that’s hard, and that’s mentally very draining and stressful.

[00:47:26] Whereas when you get to a point where I’m me, whoever [00:47:30] I’m talking to, I’m me. They like me, they like me, they don’t like me, they don’t like me, it’s okay. But I’m gonna be me because I have to be lived true to myself. I have to say what I think. I have to say what I feel. If I can help people, I will. I will be kind to people as much as I can, [00:47:45] but I have to be me.

[00:47:46] I cannot sacrifice myself for others. And I think that, that’s the, the, the lesson that comes from working in all the places I’ve worked and, and seeing a lot of the [00:48:00] people I’ve seen because a lot of people sacrifice themselves, they lose themselves, and then they get to a point of despair to some extent, and they don’t know what to do.

[00:48:08] So to, to not allow that to happen by being true to yourself and living the [00:48:15] life that, um, we were designed for- It’s a huge thing. And the more people that can do that, the h- the better the world will be, the happier a society will have. And, you know, I [00:48:30] haven’t really touched on it much, but I think there is a huge in, say, let’s say, turning point at this– over the next two years, where AI will get to a point close to superintelligent, maybe even superintelligent.

[00:48:44] [00:48:45] Humanity is being tested. Can we keep connection? Can we still maintain our humanity at a time when it’s easy to lose ourselves [00:49:00] into the matrix? It’s probably the best way of describing it. Because it’s– Like, I, I, I wrote a research report on this recently around the, the amount of, um, digital therapists.

[00:49:14] Most people [00:49:15] today, if they have a problem, a lot of people obviously Googled it in the past and then went to the GP and said, “Google’s telling me I’ve got this,” right? GPs hate that, and I get why. But now they just use AI as their therapist. They don’t even bother necessarily going to the [00:49:30] GP unless they feel like they have to get a prescription for something.

[00:49:32] But it’s, “Okay, AI, be my doctor. Help me. What– You know, I have these symptoms. Help me.” So the, the, the issue is we can stop talking to people, [00:49:45] start relying on technology, and suddenly we lose our connection, and we get distracted by all the noise of everything else that’s happening. So I think over the next few years, we have to learn to retain our humanity as [00:50:00] s- the world changes, society changes, and the economic climate changes.

[00:50:04] And I think that’s the problem here. We’ve got an, an economic climate that’s gonna be very difficult and challenging for a lot of people at the same time as the technology evolution allowing us to [00:50:15] escape into it and, and it, and it kind of snowball effects the economic side of things because as AI does more work It can take the, the role of s- certain lower level jobs, even certain higher level jobs.

[00:50:29] And so less [00:50:30] people will have employment opportunities. The kids coming through today, the Gen Zs, just won’t have that lower layer of menial tasks that I know I started doing, photocopying and, and, uh, you know, all the, all the stuff you… [00:50:45] Filing and whatever else. It’s not gonna exist. So you’re gonna have a lot of, um…

[00:50:52] Unfortunately, I see a lot of, a lot of people who will struggle mentally to deal with this new world. And so the more we can support each other, the more we [00:51:00] can retain our humanity and compassion and connect with people and try and help, the better the, the society will be and the better the world will be.

[00:51:08] Whereas at the moment, um, it’s still on the knife edge as to which way it goes, because [00:51:15] there are people who will just promote the tech for the sake of profit, don’t care about the people because that requires feeling, that requires effort, work. We’re not– We, we [00:51:30] could easily all just be robots and, and that’s where I think some governments would love it.

[00:51:35] But retaining humanity, being ourselves, connecting with people, experiencing [00:51:45] life as we were meant to, see the world, do things, meet people, experience, explore, enjoy. We have to maintain that balance of the human side versus just getting stuck in [00:52:00] that loop of we need to work harder, work harder, because if we don’t, we lose our job, and if we lose our job, then we don’t have money, and then we can’t live life.

[00:52:06] Like it’s, it’s a, it’s a cy- But it’s the other way around. Live your life and everything else will come. But having that faith, having that trust is hard. [00:52:15] So yeah, I, I, I do think the next couple of years are gonna be very interesting, and I do think that, um, for a lot of people, um, there will be a choice to make.

[00:52:26] Escape Or [00:52:30] feel. And I hope people choose the feel, understand who they are, and then start to live the life that they were designed for, because that will make the world a better place, and that will [00:52:45] help us to help the next generation to leave a better world for the people that are going to experience it over time.

[00:52:54] So yeah, I l- I look at it as, you know, I’ve experienced everything I’ve experienced just [00:53:00] so I can pass on knowledge, experience, advice. People don’t have to take it, but at least give them another perspective on how to think about things and how to be happy, how to be free, how to find [00:53:15] peace, um, as they live their lives.

[00:53:17] So yeah, it’s a lot of, um, learnings from a, a, sometimes a place of darkness or sometimes a place of pain. But if I can help anyone, um, [00:53:30] that’s what I would love to do

[00:53:35] ​

[00:53:35] **Ian Wilson:** That’s great, Paraag.

## [00:53:36] Helping Others Escape the Programming

[00:53:36] **Ian Wilson:** How do you think we should, as coaches and people, help people escape the programming, the expectations of [00:53:45] society wanting us to conform to a model that, like you said, that’s already broken, and escape into living a best life with childlike wonder like you’ve described?

[00:53:56] **Paraag Amin:** So for me, the first thing is we have to live it ourselves. [00:54:00] We have to be the living example of what’s possible. Because if we say one thing and do something else, no one’s gonna believe. So you have to live the life that you want to show other people is possible. Once you do that, curiosity kicks in.[00:54:15]

[00:54:15] People, people start to come and go, “Well, how is it you don’t get stressed at these little things? Why is it you don’t get angry at those things? Or how, how is it you can not worry about the future? How is it you can live in the present and turn off your [00:54:30] phone for t- two weeks and not worry about the notifications you might or might not have got?”

[00:54:35] Like, living it is really the only way, I think, of showing people what’s possible. Because talking about it, yeah, the odd person might, [00:54:45] uh, feel it, but by seeing it, then you know it’s really possible and it’s something that, uh, you, you want for yourself. So I think first as mentors, strategists, [00:55:00] coaches, guides, whatever you wanna call, living that life and being the outcome is the first step.

[00:55:08] The second part then is making it simple for other people who want to, to go on that journey [00:55:15] to actually go on the journey. ‘Cause a, a lot of people will overcomplicate it and they’ll hype it up by saying, “Oh, we did this, this, this.” It’s like… But fundamentally, when you come down to the bare principles, usually it’s very simple.

[00:55:29] It’s just people [00:55:30] don’t wanna, uh, say, “Actually, it’s quite simple,” because then, then it’s, it’s as if, well, I’ve just done something easy rather than I’ve done something that’s really hard. So laying out a framework or a methodology that, that a lot of coaches will do, but just, [00:55:45] uh, giving ideas of things that are very simple to implement.

[00:55:48] Because small steps, the compounding effect, you know, a lot of people talk about all these things, but they’re true. You do something daily and it becomes a habit. It then compounds. [00:56:00] So whether it’s, um, a daily five-minute meditation Two minutes breathwork. Don’t look at your phone for the first half an hour when you wake up.

[00:56:14] Turn [00:56:15] off that screen for the last hour before you go to bed. Starting to implement what are pretty easy things, if you really think about it, but feel difficult because you’re so, we’re so e- you know, ingrained into doing these things. Um, but starting there, [00:56:30] and then those habits build. And then what happens is natural cur- curiosity, but actually natural desire for it to accelerate the positive effects that you’re feeling comes through, and then it, then it snowballs.

[00:56:43] So getting [00:56:45] people started with easy steps rather than putting in, like, this whole, you know, this is what you’re gonna have to do for the rest of your life, and, like, you’re gonna have to make all these million changes, and you’re gonna have to stop eating this and not do that, and never do… No. People, [00:57:00] people don’t like change, so you’ve gotta make the change easy, and you’ve gotta make it small steps.

[00:57:05] And sure, it takes time, but that’s okay because in time you’ll look back and say, actually, doing those small things has now had a massive compounding effect. So [00:57:15] I think, yeah, for any- any- anyone who’s trying to support people, live the life and show, and then make it very easy for people to start to take that journey to where you’re at and where they wanna get to because [00:57:30] then it, then it will happen.

[00:57:33] **Ian Wilson:**

[00:57:33] Great recipe for helping people to break free and achieve the lives of their dreams. So thanks for all your wonderful insights.

## [00:57:43] Quick Fire Round

[00:57:43] **Ian Wilson:** I’ve just got an, a, a quick fire round now for you. Uh, but obviously it’s quick fire, you can take as long to answer the questions as you want.

[00:57:47] So in a world of superheroes, what would your superpower be and why?

[00:57:53] **Paraag Amin:** Flying, just so I can go anywhere I want, whenever I want. That or teleportation, same thing. But f- the flying, I love [00:58:00] being up high and just seeing things from the top.

[00:58:03] So fly- flying would be my number one, um, superpower.

[00:58:08] **Ian Wilson:** So if you could invite three people from history to dinner, who would they be, and why?

[00:58:15] **Paraag Amin:** Um, interesting. So one of those I’ve actually had dinner with, but they’re not from history, but Sachin Tendulkar was my dream dinner date, and I had dinner with him and that was amazing.

[00:58:24] But going back in time, um, I would, I’d love to… [00:58:30] Actually, it’d probably be some of the Greek philosophers. Um, Socrates, um, would be one. Um, I w- I would say outside of that, I’d love to have met [00:58:45] Ayrton Senna, just from, you know, there’s a, there’s a whole sporting wall behind me. It’s a, it’s a huge thing in my life- Yeah

[00:58:51] and, and Senna was one of those, um, amazing people in, you know, obviously F1 history that, that left us too soon. [00:59:00] Um, and as, as a, as a third one, I’d probably say someone who I think it’d just be interesting just to actually understand what he was really like, would, would be someone like Winston Churchill.

[00:59:12] Um, to actually know was he the [00:59:15] man we are told? Or was he completely different and, and, and, uh, and, and, yeah, different personality. So I think from, from different fields, like the, the intellectual field, the political side, and then the sporting side. I think for me, the other person I [00:59:30] would add to that would be Michael Jackson, just to really…

[00:59:32] as, as just ad- admire his music. So, um, but yeah. So yeah, tho- those would be on the list.

[00:59:40] **Ian Wilson:** Do you think you would actually get a word in edgeways with them, them, them people as the dinner guest all [00:59:45] together?

[00:59:45] **Paraag Amin:** I’m happy to listen. Yeah. For me, it’s what have I got to add to them? No. This is me listening to their wisdom, their, their way of thinking, and, uh, their, their way of being.

[00:59:56] And I think for me, that’s key. Listening to other people is how you learn the [01:00:00] most

[01:00:01] **Ian Wilson:** That’s great. So what’s something you’ve completely changed your mind about over time?

[01:00:09] **Paraag Amin:** Let’s call it-

[01:00:13] I’m not gonna call it God or religion, [01:00:15] but ultimately the universe. Um, I was completely atheist, completely in like, okay, it’s all science, it’s all science. But having now read a lot, learned a lot, been on, let’s call it a spiritual journey, um, you know, I admit I’ve [01:00:30] done plant medicine and all sorts of other things.

[01:00:32] Um, I realize science and the spiritual side are all in the same thing. It, it’s all about energy. So is there a God? Well, if God is the word for the quantum [01:00:45] consciousness, yes. Is there, is, you know, is there a spirituality to the, the way the universe works now? Yes. So yeah, I’ve completely gone from science atheism to believing that there is something and, [01:01:00] and actually connecting into it.

[01:01:01] So yeah, that’s probably the biggest, uh, change.

[01:01:05] **Ian Wilson:** So what are you most grateful for today?

[01:01:09] **Paraag Amin:** My kids and just being alive. [01:01:15] There’s nothing more amazing than being alive and just standing outside and just looking at the sky and looking at the nature. But my kids absolutely make my life. Um, so the, that’s, that’s the number one thing, and then, yeah, [01:01:30] after that, just, just the, the, the ability to live in this world and experience it.

[01:01:36] **Ian Wilson:** That’s amazing. Uh, so what’s one question that you would love to answer but no one’s ever asked you?[01:01:45]

[01:01:45] **Paraag Amin:** Hmm, interesting one. So-

[01:01:48] No one’s ever asked me. Okay, that’s a really interesting question. So I think, um

[01:01:56] It’d be something around my emotions. I don’t think anyone’s ever asked me how, [01:02:00] how I truly feel, um, at certain… Well, pr- uh, probably ever, like, in terms of just h- how do, how do you feel, right? People might say, “How are you?” Or, well, you know, “How’s, how’s life? How’s things?” But I don’t think [01:02:15] anyone’s truly actually said to me, “How do you feel?”

[01:02:18] I ask it a lot to a lot of other people, but I guess maybe that’s why, when, when you’re the one always helping. But yeah, how do I feel? I think that’s not been asked.[01:02:30]

[01:02:30] **Ian Wilson:** So how do you truly feel about our conversation today?

[01:02:34] **Paraag Amin:** I’ve loved it. Um, for me, um, sharing my story, if it even, even if it resonates with one [01:02:45] person, is, is amazing.

[01:02:46] Um, appreciate your openness, uh, in terms of obviously, uh, first me being on here, but more importantly, um, allowing me to be free [01:03:00] with what I say and how I say it. Because I’ve done other interviews where, where it’s kind of almost guided and there’s certain object- uh, agendas and objectives, but the fact that you’re…

[01:03:09] there isn’t, uh, beyond get to know the person, which I think is amazing. So I feel [01:03:15] great, and thank you for asking.

[01:03:17] **Ian Wilson:** Oh, thank you. Thank you. So finally, Paraag, there’s one final question.

## [01:03:22] Working at the Coalface

[01:03:22] **Ian Wilson:** As you know, the podcast is called Coalface Stories. What does working at the coalface mean to you?

[01:03:29] **Paraag Amin:** Getting your [01:03:30] hands dirty and learning as much as you can about everything, to be able to then be informed when doing something.

[01:03:43] ‘Cause I think the biggest [01:03:45] thing for me is if I’m managing someone or if I’m, um, working with a team, I should be able to do everything they can do. It doesn’t mean I should do it, but I should at least know how to do it and what to do to be able to then support and guide. So for, for me, at, [01:04:00] at, back at the coalface, it’s very much getting your hands dirty, learning as much as you can, being, um, yeah, not, not, not just sitting back and letting everyone else do things.

[01:04:12] So yeah, just, uh, [01:04:15] getting into the weeds of, of everything and learning so that you can then take a step back and support those people who are, who are gonna be doing those things or, or actually have a, have an idea of what’s happening and [01:04:30] not just guesswork.

[01:04:33] **Ian Wilson:** that’s a great answer, because if you, if you don’t know how to do something, how can you tell what’s good and what’s bad, what’s mediocre?

[01:04:41] And how can you guide and help people to, [01:04:45] uh, do their work to the best of th- their ability?

[01:04:49] **Paraag Amin:** Exactly. And that’s why it’s always interesting when you see people going into senior roles who’ve never done anything before. And you wonder like, “Okay, how are you gonna succeed here?” Bit of luck, um, but often they [01:05:00] don’t.

[01:05:00] And so, yeah, getting h- getting experience in whatever you’re doing in life, whether that’s life work, I think is key to, to, to being the best version of yourself.

[01:05:10] **Ian Wilson:** Right. That, that’s great. Thanks for being an amazing, amazing guest, [01:05:15] Paraag. Uh,

## [01:05:15] Closing & Where to Find Paraag

[01:05:19] **Ian Wilson:** where can the listeners, uh, find out about you and contact you, and, if they wish?

[01:05:20] **Paraag Amin:** So I, I’m on LinkedIn. Look up Paraag Amin. Um, on, I’m, I, I go as The Paraag on Instagram. But also the, have a look at my website. It’s called [01:05:30] alifethatfits.today. Um, so number of ways of getting in touch, but, um, yeah, happy for anyone to get in touch if, uh, if, if any of this resonated and they’d like to, to have a chat.

[01:05:43] **Ian Wilson:** Right. Thank you, Paraag. [01:05:45] It’s been an amazing conversation. I really enjoyed listening to you and your, your take on life, and I hope the listeners have en- enjoyed it as well. And I thank the listeners for

[01:05:54] taking the time to, uh, to listen. So-

[01:05:58] **Paraag Amin:**

[01:05:58] **Ian Wilson:** thank you again.

[01:05:59] **Paraag Amin:** Yeah.

[01:05:59] Thank [01:06:00] you, Ian. Appreciate the opportunity, and, uh, look forward to, to speaking with you soon as well.

[01:06:04] **Ian Wilson:** Thank you. Have a, have an amazing day, everybody.

[01:06:09] **Paraag Amin:** Likewise. Thanks, Ian.